City Winner History?

[Acidic]

Think the crying part of solo queue players should be just ignored unless you consider the reality that Destro solo rarely even get into a city.
We have the rag tag solo and non WB friendly order fluffing up the numbers in favor of Destro so order complains when the reality is that the equivelent ragtag and solo of Destro don’t even get in. So which is worse , being run over by something organised but having a chance or just not getting in.

[nuadarstark]

Think the crying part of solo queue players should be just ignored unless you consider the reality that Destro solo rarely even get into a city.
We have the rag tag solo and non WB friendly order fluffing up the numbers in favor of Destro so order complains when the reality is that the equivelent ragtag and solo of Destro don’t even get in. So which is worse , being run over by something organised but having a chance or just not getting in.

Well that's because you have higher number of population when cities happen than Order. If those "crying, non-WB friendly solo Qers" don't queue at all, you'll see even lesser amount of Destro getting in...

Neither of the two problems you wrote there is good.

[juzziex]

Wow Order players are pretty good. When I play classic wow the disadvantaged side tends to win like 5% so congrats to order for stomping destro 20% of the time. The skill level of order players must be lightyears ahead of destro players.

[Foofmonger]

Think the crying part of solo queue players should be just ignored unless you consider the reality that Destro solo rarely even get into a city.
We have the rag tag solo and non WB friendly order fluffing up the numbers in favor of Destro so order complains when the reality is that the equivelent ragtag and solo of Destro don’t even get in. So which is worse , being run over by something organised but having a chance or just not getting in.

Well that's because you have higher number of population when cities happen than Order. If those "crying, non-WB friendly solo Qers" don't queue at all, you'll see even lesser amount of Destro getting in...

Neither of the two problems you wrote there is good.

Yea that's unfortunately the limitation of the system and how design impacts behavior. It sucks for both solo destro and solo order, but for different reasons, and those different reasons have had a large impact on community behavior.

Destro pugs don't get in cities. Order pugs get in cities but lose them. Neither of those groups of people are having a great time with this content system. That being said, being able to pug end game content in an MMO (and do well) is a rare thing anyway. But yea, we've already had long conversations about the city design itself and the devs have stated they're working on some idea so only time will tell at this point.

[gurtuk]

From what I have seen over the years order is pretty good at defending a small doorway but when it comes to open battles and even numbers in city's, (24v24) order loses a lot just because they are so uncoordinated. Basically.

[Draugris]

2. Destro has more hardcore guilds, which are also organized among themselves into an alliance.

I really don´t know what should be "hardcore" about them. Any guild calling itself "hardcore" and is taking that seriously would play there where the challenge is, would like to be the underdog, would like to fight outnumbered no mate, they are just after easy win´s. And to make them feel better they come here and tell some fairy tales .

[juzziex]

From what I have seen over the years order is pretty good at defending a small doorway but when it comes to open battles and even numbers in city's, (24v24) order loses a lot just because they are so uncoordinated. Basically.

Yes Alliance is all one player, theres no good players on entire faction. Its not will of the forsaken or ele shammys making all the difference...oh yeah wrong game this is that mythic game right...

Yes Alb players are very uncoordinated it....oh.....oh right

Pretty sure there's as many good and bad players on any faction with a large quantity of players to pick from. It's the class/map/racial advantages that make the difference. I mean look at Counter Strike, there's maps where terrorists dominate all day long, then the players switch teams and guess what? The terrorists still keep dominating.

The game is imbalanced, just look at the 2 order classes destro try to claim is OP. One is not even accepted into competitive groups its so bad(SW) and other has a little more front end burst and some overrated gap closer ability meanwhile the destro counter part has like every tool in the shed.

[Foofmonger]

One thing I think it's important for everyone to note is: The city design was never supposed to be like it is intentionally.

Initially, Mythic's vision for Warhammer Online was "massive city sieges" a la Forts. However, due to the technology of the time, they just couldn't get it to work. Remember, cities weren't even in the game at launch in 2008.

So, when Mythic finally released the city content, the community back then was very annoyed at the "bait and switch". This content was never supposed to be 24v24 instances, it was supposed to be a "grand epic battle" but Mythic couldn't get their architecture to support this and the 24v24 instances were effectively the best band-aid they could slap onto their City System.

So the city system in this game has never been good. It started out poor and remained poor throughout the lifecycle of the game, and now that the content is re-introduced to this private server, we see the issues with Mythic's original design. As I mentioned above, the devs are trying to think of ways to help alleviate some of Mythic's original design issues (as they have stated), but we should all have a firm understanding of what the city was, what it is, and what it should have been. This city system was never ideal.

[nuadarstark]

From what I have seen over the years order is pretty good at defending a small doorway but when it comes to open battles and even numbers in city's, (24v24) order loses a lot just because they are so uncoordinated. Basically.

Way too much of a generalization, gonna depend on dozens of things. As someone rolling in with a particular setup in an organised WB, I'd say the exact opposite - Destros melee train is exceptionally good at fighting in tight spaces with no maneuvering/spreading out possible, with Order we like a bit more space. It's why even fight in different sections of cities/lakes usually make massive differences. That's my experience at least. Yours might be different because you might be meeting different Order, in different compo, in different TZ on different map/lake/instance, etc etc etc.

But sure thanks for the input Gorbane...

[nuadarstark]

One thing I think it's important for everyone to note is: The city design was never supposed to be like it is intentionally.

Initially, Mythic's vision for Warhammer Online was "massive city sieges" a la Forts. However, due to the technology of the time, they just couldn't get it to work. Remember, cities weren't even in the game at launch in 2008.

So, when Mythic finally released the city content, the community back then was very annoyed at the "bait and switch". This content was never supposed to be 24v24 instances, it was supposed to be a "grand epic battle" but Mythic couldn't get their architecture to support this and the 24v24 instances were effectively the best band-aid they could slap onto their City System.

So the city system in this game has never been good. It started out poor and remained poor throughout the lifecycle of the game, and now that the content is re-introduced to this private server, we see the issues with Mythic's original design. As I mentioned above, the devs are trying to think of ways to help alleviate some of Mythic's original design issues (as they have stated), but we should all have a firm understanding of what the city was, what it is, and what it should have been. This city system was never ideal.

This again is very much the case. That's why we're weeving to bit of a pointless discussion here at this point - the reasonable, measured people who want to stay objective will see the issues, as do the devs from what we saw in the discussion here. The rest here is just flinging mud on the other side, which is not exactly productive.