Patch Notes 31/1/2017

[Zanilos]

To be fair, if warbands are now forced to rely more on ST, i.e. actually targeting opponents, assisting, proper rotations and not 1 key, then that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If this happens, then only the zerg will win. As I explained before, the zerg is not necessarily the bombing warband, on live bombing was made as an anti-zerg setup (which was overperforming at the start, then got nerfed etc..). Sheer numbers will be the only factor deciding fights then.

People forget this, WBs bombed the zerg, then they bombed each other.

A lack of competition and the communitys mentality is the biggest issue. When the guilds leave this game, it will be pug vs small scale, then the pugs leave. Exactly like on live.

[Tiggo]

To be fair, if warbands are now forced to rely more on ST, i.e. actually targeting opponents, assisting, proper rotations and not 1 key, then that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I really want to see how you will try to kill whole WB with ST assist. You know that people are abler to spam res, right?

yes and thats a thing that maybe should be adressed too

[Tiggo]

To be fair, if warbands are now forced to rely more on ST, i.e. actually targeting opponents, assisting, proper rotations and not 1 key, then that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I really want to see how you will try to kill whole WB with ST assist. You know that people are abler to spam res, right?

That's the beauty of it. The WB keeps rezzing, and the premade keeps farming them over and over and over and over. I have seen several premades do this a bazillion times.

thats bad game design as there is no climax but just slowly dieing sadness.

[roadkillrobin]

Whats beutiful about spamming 1 ress button as a healer?

[dur3al]

Small scale in oRvR rely only on hit-and-run tactics as I explained previously, in an open field battle without pugs & doors around the only way a 6 man will try to engage a 12 man + is if they're able to survive the engagement kiting, even if they don't succeed in killing anyone. Right now it is impossible without speed procs on-being-hit. Speed and kiting is a necessity, use terrain to your advantage, kite far and survive long to be able to spread out the blob - that's how you manage to fight against bigger numbers. Until you've realized this I'm afraid any other change to address this issue simply won't work - and the issue will remain.

There is something I don't get about the QE/Odjira argument, and it's this:

Odjira and QE are not some mythical game element that only 6 mans can use. Everyone in that 12 man or warband or whatever you may be facing can spec them as well. What factor makes QE and Odjira serve your purpose alone and not theirs?

I answered this a couple of pages ago:

QE won't create any unbalance simply because its available for everyone at the cost of renown points, but it works "on being hit" basis, this gives a small edge in oRvR to small groups for kiting and disengaging, since they will most likely be being hit from all sides (especially against AoE) and by many more people (fighting outnumbered), so even if the blob also uses QE+Odjira, they would require everyone of the blob to be taking damage in order to push at the same speed, and this simply won't happen because the small group is not able to hit everyone (let alone make the buff proc for everyone). This opens room for hit-and-run tactics as well as kiting for small groups in oRvR that does not resolve around posterns/warcamps etc.

The problem people are having, is when thinking "blob" vs small numbers is that this shouldn't really be about AoE vs ST. The blob uses as much ST as the small numbers. The issue is the amount of attacks incoming from one side (splash damage, pet damage, direct damage, dealing over time damage etc) is much higher from the "blob" side, which is why it makes sense for a speed increase proc on-being-hit to be available in-game such as QE.
And why speed and not some armor buff or something else? Because speed and movement is king in open field battles, that's what enables groups to stretch the "blob" side opening room for opportunities of other groups to engage in a semi-equal position of strength. Because no matter what other buffs you gain, being able to simply be out of touch and avoid taking any damage is just simply much better in situations where you're being hit by multiple targets.

[Komode]

I really want to see how you will try to kill whole WB with ST assist. You know that people are abler to spam res, right?

That's the beauty of it. The WB keeps rezzing, and the premade keeps farming them over and over and over and over. I have seen several premades do this a bazillion times.

thats bad game design as there is no climax but just slowly dieing sadness.

I really like your sense of humor, guys

[Jaycub]

There is something I don't get about the QE/Odjira argument, and it's this:

Odjira and QE are not some mythical game element that only 6 mans can use. Everyone in that 12 man or warband or whatever you may be facing can spec them as well. What factor makes QE and Odjira serve your purpose alone and not theirs?

It's part of the games cheese that only """good""" players use. Which allows 6 man groups to dumpster clueless pugs that don't take advantage of it.

The amount of power gap created by CW, RD, QE/Odjira, Triple pots etc... is probably greater than the gap between anni and sov.

Generally misinformed/casual population that makes up most of the server here and on live is the problem, certainly everyone has access to it so why don't they all use it? You know the answer. And On one hand I like it, because it does let our 6 mans fight warbands to some extent, and do **** that you just can't do without them. However it really mucks up 6v6 and scenarios generally equal skill and population fighting balance in ORvR. So you are gonna have strictly 6 man players shilling HARD to not get any of this removed, and even bring some of it back.

Spoiler:

Kinda unrelated but any skills that have over a minute CD, or rather have to be balanced around having cooldowns that long are trash and have no place in PvP games imo, problems with burden of knowledge, class balance conflictions (people talk about armor stacking being an issue as it breaks preconceived archetype restrictions, well RD/CW etc... is doing the same **** for RDPS/Tanks etc...

[Penril]

I really like your sense of humor, guys

Good for you that you are in the best WB in the history of WAR and never experience things like the one i described. But it happens... a LOT. The premade kills and kills and kills, and the WB rezzes and rezzes and rezzes until they realize they are only being farmed and not getting any kills of their own. At that point, they panic, try to disengage, and it is game over for them.

Given equal skill though, the organized WB should murderstomp the 6-man (and with this patch, completely obliterate an unorganized pug WB). Which makes sense and is perfectly fine.

[Komode]

I really like your sense of humor, guys

Good for you that you are in the best WB in the history of WAR and never experience things like the one i described. But it happens... a LOT. The premade kills and kills and kills, and the WB rezzes and rezzes and rezzes until they realize they are only being farmed and not getting any kills of their own. At that point, they panic, try to disengage, and it is game over for them.

Given equal skill though, the organized WB should murderstomp the 6-man (and with this patch, completely obliterate an unorganized pug WB). Which makes sense and is perfectly fine.

I was experiencing such things before, thats why i disliked new changes tbh:)

[dur3al]

There is something I don't get about the QE/Odjira argument, and it's this:

Odjira and QE are not some mythical game element that only 6 mans can use. Everyone in that 12 man or warband or whatever you may be facing can spec them as well. What factor makes QE and Odjira serve your purpose alone and not theirs?

It's part of the games cheese that only """good""" players use. Which allows 6 man groups to dumpster clueless pugs that don't take advantage of it.

The amount of power gap created by CW, RD, QE/Odjira, Triple pots etc... is probably greater than the gap between anni and sov.

Lol, how you cannot read my reply to Aza, which I've already posted in this thread at least 2 times, and not understand why I am advocating for QE as a means to even out the odds when terms of small group vs big group? And I've been doing so for months to be fair.

Generally misinformed/casual population that makes up most of the server here and on live is the problem, certainly everyone has access to it so why don't they all use it? You know the answer. And On one hand I like it, because it does let our 6 mans fight warbands to some extent, and do **** that you just can't do without them. However it really mucks up 6v6 and scenarios generally equal skill and population fighting balance in ORvR. So you are gonna have strictly 6 man players shilling HARD to not get any of this removed, and even bring some of it back.

How is this going to muck up 6v6 of generally equal skill and renown rank fights? As I said in some other thread sometime ago, knowledge should be rewarded. Its the same thing as choosing the right spec or the right rotation, or when to engage or when to disengage. That is also part of the skill set.

Kinda unrelated but any skills that have over a minute CD, or rather have to be balanced around having cooldowns that long are trash and have no place in PvP games imo, problems with burden of knowledge, class balance conflictions (people talk about armor stacking being an issue as it breaks preconceived archetype restrictions, well RD/CW etc... is doing the same **** for RDPS/Tanks etc...

Regarding CW/RD none of my characters use it, and most of the people I play with either, actually if you take one of those skills for 6v6 and CWs you're simply gimping your own spec. I do understand is a get away card if you're in trouble, so its very good for oRvR where you cannot foresee what will happen next.