Patch Notes 31/1/2017

[Aurandilaz]

tbh, Cw3 is a must have on any good healer who values their survivability.
then again I'm a baddie who likes healcrit

Anyway, if we were given Qe1, I would shamelessly always pick it up as my first renown ability upon dinging rr10, just like I did on live; it's simply too good not to be used.

[sabat80]

What do you think about Haojin`s suggestion?

lso, I'm sick of reading objective based design being blamed for zerging / blobs. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about the idea that you can have, in a properly designed system, a large number of players in a single section of the map WITHOUT causing a blob. The blob is caused by the combat system failing to punish blobbing. Nothing - more.

People blob because it is in peoples mentality to blob - "Strength In Numbers" and only way how you are going to brake it when people realise that if they zerg and are attacked by a smaller group they can loose.

Idea with QE is actually very interesting and I do not understand why you are dismissing it without a test? We are testers? aren't we? Ability is there so it should not be a problem to put it to test for a week? We are currently testing a system which you have put in place and overall feedback is negative. It is a short time for now but why dont think about something else instead of dismissing it straight away?

You already have a calculation behind the scenes which makes morale gain faster for a group facing more enemies - why dont debuff opponents Wounds based on it? you do it in the keep already - lets try it in the open field, just limit the range in which wounds are debuffed - 30ft? from the opponent (as I do not want to give range classes more advantage than they have now). I know that you have put it live few month ago but it was taken away within hours and I dont know anyone who managed to test it?

Another issue is morale. Fast morale pump and dump is what makes it completely skill less. Take tanks and Raze - it takes seconds to build up, take BW and R&D - it takes seconds to build it and that causes a problem - dump wounds debuff + raze, dump R&D + annihilate - look everyone melt. Why don't move those heavy hitting morales higher? to M3 or M4 even? let them wait! and if people are faxing zerg they will get them faster and get the edge?

[Azarael]

1) Objection to mandatory specializations available to all classes without discrimination (RD/CW/QE) - RD and CW were added on sufferance and are still subject to review. Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting QE is not mandatory

2) Objection to balance shifts caused by increasing average speed in a manner that doesn't stack. yes before it is brought up again I read the post about making QE and Odjira stack - no I will not allow base speed to increase to such an incredible extent by allowing QE to stack with Charge etc

3) Objection to attempts to creep up to old live's meta by successively restoring Mythic's solutions to older problems. I'm not entirely stupid.

[sabat80]

1) Objection to mandatory specializations available to all classes without discrimination (RD/CW/QE) - RD and CW were added on sufferance and are still subject to review. Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting QE is not mandatory

Actually you have made a point which makes it even more interesting. If it becomes mandatory it is reducing damage output and increases life expectancy = longer TTK, more interesting fights.

3) Objection to attempts to creep up to old live's meta by successively restoring Mythic's solutions to older problems. I'm not entirely stupid.

Nobody is asking for an old meta - it was ****, that's why that game was dead until you have resurrected it!

[dur3al]

Spoiler:

Just like CW/RD, it is NOT mandatory for groups, people who don't know how to position themselves will obviously pick those skills on detrimental of their damage or healing, so that is fine - that is speaking about group play. Casual/solo players is something else and those skills will obviously bring you the advantage in some situations - but the game should be balanced for group play correct? Even on live with my rr100 WH I only used RD1 and used very rarely, usually just to get some kills in very-tough-to-kill-players surrounded by healers and tanks, everything else was losing burst damage.

"key" players using CW and RD (and this isn't even RvR): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x15cUAHtJEw

Yeah, sorry, have to call BS on your post. CW, RD and QE are simply too good compared to other renown abilities.

He's playing a SnB tank, he doesn't need damage nor healing, did you even read what I wrote?

people who don't know how to position themselves will obviously pick those skills on detrimental of their damage or healing, so that is fine

Is he healing or doing damage? As a SnB at that level (35) you'd barely take damage anyway, the only guy who could die in that situation would be the mDps, so the smart choice is to spec into something that gives you the possibility to do your job better, which is to not be CC'd by the enemy tank and always remain in range of your guarded ally, and be able to CC the enemy tank when going in for a push. Notice how he uses it only when the first target dies to not be CC'd in anyway when going for the 2nd kill and manage to get a punt on the knight while they're dpsing the RP?

1) Objection to mandatory specializations available to all classes without discrimination (RD/CW/QE) - RD and CW were added on sufferance and are still subject to review. Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting QE is not mandatory

And even so, can you debunk on how this would be bad even if everyone specced for it? As I detailed the many different scenarios that we would end up with? How is any of that bad lol. It actually serves you on all you want to achieve.

And everyone speccing for it its not the same as nobody speccing for it, because its based "on-being-hit" which will favor more when fighting multiple enemies, and against rdps in general (because they start hitting before melee) - And sure as hell we need it to bring melee viable in this game in oRvR.

2) Objection to balance shifts caused by increasing average speed in a manner that doesn't stack. yes before it is brought up again I read the post about making QE and Odjira stack - no I will not allow base speed to increase to such an incredible extent by allowing QE to stack with Charge etc

I was saying more in the sense of making tactics stack (as they do) and not abilities, Charges should never stack with QE/Odjira. But gobbos shouldn't be nerfed by everyone being able to run fast through a proc (destroying their own "specialty).

3) Objection to attempts to creep up to old live's meta by successively restoring Mythic's solutions to older problems. I'm not entirely stupid.

Is this an argument now? That's worse then saying "its to stronk".

Something that was tried, tested and true - something that the ONLY complaint that I heard about was regarding them rendering gobbos running speed useless (which as I suggested, could be changed). So you're not going with it just because brings resemblance of a Mythic's solution?
So what, now you'll not be going to bring set abilities such as anti-moral, anti-cc, anti-crit nor anything lotd-related just because you don't want to? Are you going to remove any possibility of a small group be able to take on large numbers that is not server-side (your recent AoE changes for example) - Is it going to be a pure numbers game? Zerg 100% wins? Can you please confirm this?

I don't care whether Trump or Obama, Mythic or even EA/BioWare suggested it, I want to see rational and reasonable arguments as to why it won't work, so please debunk my post on what would happen if everyone specced QE situations that I described earlier.

Even though I show you evidence, you still try to spin it. Even though you had 4 warnings, you still had to post a "dropping the mic" pic (which I simply deleted, didn't feel like warning or banning since i have nothing personal against you). But no one here ever posted "its to stronk". For these reasons, you are no longer welcome in this thread - Penril

[Luth]

1) Objection to mandatory specializations available to all classes without discrimination (RD/CW/QE) - RD and CW were added on sufferance and are still subject to review. Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting QE is not mandatory

Actually you have made a point which makes it even more interesting. If it becomes mandatory it is reducing damage output and increases life expectancy = longer TTK, more interesting fights.

If the TTk is too low and creates boring fights all the time (i don't say it is, just an example), it must be fixed generally. Spending a certain amount of renown point on something should be as valuable as spending it on something else; this is not the case with QE and the like, just as it was with WARs mandatory "45 renown point TB meta".
No one should be forced to spend renown points on a bandaid, because the persons in charge are not willing to fix the real source(s) of the problem(s). Many people don't realize that mythics solution was the easy, lame, bad and even destructive way to "fix" the problem(s).
These abilities shifted the overall balance so far that it can be hardly corrected with simple class balance.

Edit: as it was suggested to simply raise the req. renown points for abilities:
Not everyone has the same amount of renown points and it won't address the more toxic problems with those abilities, e.g. CW punishes classes with DoTs more, QE helps the melee to catch the kiter far more than it helps the kiter to kite etc.

[Karast]

After spending time with the new changes I have to say that I don't feel that they are working well.

I know that many people decry warband AoE as 1 button mashing, but there is no ranged dps that does that, and when it comes to warband AoE, there is no real ranged AoE. It's all 40ft melee. Those high damage bw / sorcs have multi ability rotations and have to slug it out in the front. Those that stand in the back do very weak dps, that doesn't stack. They only pose a threat to those that are unhealed. The true AoE'ers are melee just as much as any slayer or chopper.

It is a high risk, high reward play-style that already had built in counters with tank abilities like hold the line, and high disrupt rates. Even the best guarded sorc's and bw's still dropped for focused pressure as many of them can tell you.

These changes have completely gutted warband AoE for ranged classes.

Now Mdps are king, and they are actually 1 button mashers, doing higher dps than any Rdps did before. The numbers are just shocking on both sides.

All that has change is that warbands now trade ranged for melee and continue on in a more spiky environment, where there are no effective counters like hold the line.

I don't disagree with the concept behind the change but the increase in damage and the target cap, as well as the friendly fire, and decrease in damage are just too massive. I could see the system function to a lesser degree with lower target caps in the 9-12 range, and a lower increase scaling to a maximum of 15-25%.

But as the changes stand now, it has just turned mdps, and slayers in particular into ridiculous warband slaying beast you can push out 3-4k per gcd AoE, something that not even the best BW's / Sorcs could do pre patch, and certainly not from the safety of range.

[Azarael]

Except the base damage of those abilities isn't 3-4k. They're getting 3-4k because people are letting them get 3-4k.

Formation change does not happen overnight, and it certainly doesn't happen if the players forming the very formations you are discriminating against can overturn the change in 3 days.

[bloodi]

That still doesnt deny the fact that you are letting some classes do it while heavily punishing others for doing the same.

Why is a mdps using pbaoe fine but a ranged class is not? They are functioning on the same ranges, in some cases the ranged classes have a lot less defenses to pull it off yet the reward is not nearly as much.

[Azarael]

Because my aim was to see whether cone abilities would work for diffusion first, and handle the mess later. I'm not ignorant to the fact that 360 degree attacks are almost unusable now.