stats Armor vs Toughness

[roadkillrobin]

How did you come up with the number 15%? The relative mitigation coming from toughness is depending on how much dmg you take. I know you wrote "average" but even with that addition it is very bold to guess such a relative number, isnt it?

My numbers actually comes from Annaise16,
He said in a post a couple months back that toughness could account for 50% of armor vallues when comparing talismans for talismans. And full slots armor would grant you 30% armor mitigration making tougness 15%

[Keyser]

With regard to the order of mitigation, mitigation due to toughness occurs first, then absorption, then armor.

Can anybody confirm this? We've had several different interpretation of the order of mitigation

The formula for dmg by an instant physical attack is

((Str + Melee Bonus - Toughness)/5 + ability base dmg + weapon dps) * 1.5 * (1 - physical resistance) .

The question is: where does absorp come in play? To be honest, I cannot recall it completely from live. I believe it is
max{((Str + Melee Bonus - Toughness)/5 + ability base dmg + weapon dps ) * 1.5 - absorp , 0} * (1 - physical resistance) .
That would confirm Annaise16's statement.

[Annaise16]

With regard to the order of mitigation, mitigation due to toughness occurs first, then absorption, then armor.

Can anybody confirm this? We've had several different interpretation of the order of mitigation

The linked ss allows you to compare how much damage is being mitigated when no absorption occurs with mitigation when absorption occurs.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... khspfa.jpg

Compare timestamps 9:45:42 and 9:45:44. Notice that much less damage is being mitigated when absorption occurs. This is because all the damage has been either mitigated by toughness (the 39 points mitigated value) or absorbed. So there is no damage left to be mitigated by armor.

The combat log is from my level 14 Chosen. In the bottom half of the combat log, I have reduced its toughness by turning the toughness aura off. So you can see that when absorption occurs (timestamp 9:46:26), the mitigated value is now only 31 points of damage. But the rest of the damage is still absorbed without any mitigation by armor being applied.

[Annaise16]

@Annaise16 Yes armor still have an effect up to around 150-160 Armor mitigration. But the more you get post a cerain vallue toughness talismans per talisman give about the same amount as armour would. And toughness workin on all dmg types make it a better investment. On light armor classes you can stack as much armor as possible without this ever happening. But on tanks and even on WP/DoK/RP you can reach this amount. I think full out toughness talismans gave you a vallue of something like 15% Reduction on averege. And theres a point after worst armor debuff and 50% armor pen that stacking full out armor talises no longer gives you 15% physical mitigration and thats when toughness gets better.

That's true in theory but it doesn't really apply in practice because it requires an unlikely combination of stats. It really only applies to toons that have very low armor and very high toughness, who are armor debuffed, and who are being attacked by toons whose weapon skill is giving 55+% armor penetration. That combination of stats practically never occurs, especially if the toon being hit is using an armor pot.

[Shadowgurke]

The linked ss allows you to compare how much damage is being mitigated when no absorption occurs with mitigation when absorption occurs.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... khspfa.jpg

Thank you very much

[roadkillrobin]

Is there any list of what abillties have what dps adjusters? Like the well known AoE dps adjuster wich is 0.5. I have the afternoon off so I tought i could calculate the averege effect of how much toughness gives

[Luth]

I know only two extreme values:

IBs stat coefficient for "heavy blow" is ~4 and slayer's stat coefficient for "inevitable doom" is close to 0 afaik.
Iirc londo wrote also somewhere that statt coefficients often vary a bit, depending on your level.

[roadkillrobin]

ID probobly have the 0,5 due to it being a AoE and Heavy Blow have 4 due to the 3 sec DoT. Just a guess tho

[Annaise16]

Is there any list of what abillties have what dps adjusters? Like the well known AoE dps adjuster wich is 0.5. I have the afternoon off so I tought i could calculate the averege effect of how much toughness gives

I refer to the multipliers as "effective cast times" or ECTs for short. This is the multiplier of the damage bonus term in the formula. I haven't tested them for ROR, but I expect they are mostly the same as they were in AOR.

In general for single target abilities,

for direct damage instant cast abilities (eg. Torment), ECT = 1.5 (This is the gcd.)

for direct damage abilities that have a cast-time longer than the gcd (eg. Fireball), ECT = the cast-time

for direct damage abilities that have a cast-time less than the gcd (eg. Sear, Boiling Blood), ECT = 1.5

for 9-second duration dots, ECT = 3.0

for 15-second duration dots, ECT = 4.7

for 21-second dots, ECT = 5.6

There are some variations from the general rules though. For example, Ignite is a 9-second dot that has an ECT of 1.5.

The ECTs for channelled abilities vary.

Abilities like Fervor that have a combination of damage types have an ECT for each of the damage types, and both are different to the normal values.

The ECTs for aoe abilities are about 0.5 times the ECT for the same cast-time type of single target ability.

The ECTs for special abilities like WH executions have a variety of different values.

Some of the ECTs for healing abilities are larger values than their respective cast-times.


If you can't check in game, there are a few internet sites that will allow you to work out the various ECTs.

The old Wardb site (following link) states the base values of each ability at each ability level. These values do not include the stat contributions to damage. Keep in mind that these vales are from 2009, so some of the information might be out of date.

http://web.archive.org/web/200905290016 ... px?id=1435

The other site to use is the War Online builder site. http://waronlinebuilder.org/
The damage values on this site are for level 25 abilities where the stat contribution comes from naked, level 40 toons of the respective class. That is, the value of each ability for a level 40 toon that has spent no mastery or renown points, and that has not equipped any gear. For example, a naked level 40 WH has 173 strength. A naked level 40 AM has 223 willpower.

You can combine the information from these two sites to work out the ECTs for the different abilities.

[roadkillrobin]

The addon warbuilder seem to have all the information needed for this, the only problem with it is that abillties scales with character's stats you have online