DavidWAAAGH wrote:Yea... I just waited since yesterday for the Dwarf lair 3 hours, form a team and then a lot of destro debolster came, killed us and killed the boss.
We were a team between lvl 8 and 10, its not fair that people that want a piece of gear just get killed by a lvl 35, I know how debolster work but for a new guy in the server, like me, its not fair that some of us want to gear up to help leveling and this people just want that gear for cosmetic, a debolster player have more experience, more abilities etc... Idk how low lvl players get gear but Its not fair that this happen's, please, dont tell me that I'm crying or that, I'm just saying that doing debolster for a zone of lvl 1 to 4 and take advantage of low lvl players by farming them there (when we where waiting in the lair) and then kill the boss and laughing at us its not right. Just comment with property and dont insult, its just my opinion on this.
This is why debolster should be removed at least for T1, because this is bs.
How is this BS? you are only looking at it from your own point of view, nevermind everyone else's in game. For example some of us cant make any new toons because we are maxed on toon creation, which means if we missed any of these cosmetic pieces, because really lets be honest that is the only real value, unless u plan on staying T1 (not sure why) but even so this is like a 2nd chance to finally get another crack at getting an item for appearance for later on or on the desired toon you wish u had from before. Some of these complaints on the forum are not legit complaints but more of a "personal opinionated complaint" which should never effect the over all greater good for everyone.
Magicthigs wrote:just think it's pretty lame when a debolstered group of people come to a t1 lair and kill the lowbies that are waiting, and then laugh at them.
There is nothing whatsoever about this on the op, from where did you get this from? The laughing at them part.
Here's what the OP said:
DavidWAAAGH wrote:
I'm just saying that doing debolster for a zone of lvl 1 to 4 and take advantage of low lvl players by farming them there (when we where waiting in the lair) and then kill the boss and laughing at us its not right.
Dabbart wrote:And yet they are having fun... I used to love Griefing. In all sorts of games. I'm sure that I would still get a kick out of it, and even think about organizing debolster invasions of low level tiers to snipe anyone RvR flagged from SCs. But I don't, cause A, I don't have a large enough group of like-minded people; B, would prefer to just fight.
The thing is you admit you love griefing, and later on you try to attract the readers sympathy with things like "who wouldn't smile when you crush some lowbies" or sth like that making it sound as the typical ocasional chance encounter.
Don't twist things. You have already shown you are brave enough to admit it. Don't back from your statement. Afaik griefing is not bumping into some undergeared lowbies and smiling a little after you finish them. Griefing is purposely and repeatedly harassing people who cannot fight back. You quoted the lack of an organized group of likeminded people as one of the reasons you aren't griefing. And I'll tell you more. As someone else has pointed out in this same post, griefing is not equivalent to ganking. In this game you go in a group because you have better chances. Heck you can even select lowbies and easy targets because renown is easier this way. Griefing is focusing another individual and getting a kick out of their frustration and failure to deal with your attacks.
Please don't talk about this is a pvp game. I have known a lot of really competitive people in this game, skilled and well-geared players who were absolutely ruthless in the pursuit of their goals. Only their goals somehow never included premeditated and organized expeditions in order to make helpless people feel the whole dimension of their helplessness. If easy targets came their way, they reaped renown and went on their way in search of some meaningful, challenging fight.
About the Columbine comparison: A game is not real life. If you kill someone in a game you dont actually kill that person.OK. There is a big difference in the consequences of your acts. But the motivation, the reason why you behave like you do, the things you get a kick from, those have the same origin in both games and real life. The way someone behaves in a game tells a lot about their personality or lack thereof, their unconscious needs, their moral constrictions, etc.
The fact that you say you enjoy griefing says a lot about you.
One is negative, but that is your own problem and you'll have to learn how to first acknowledge it and then how to deal with it.
The other one is positive: you have the courage to admit something that some of us (maybe only a few of us) utterly despise and outright pity. You might go on about how you are not alone in this, most players feel the same etc. It doesn't matter if you are the exception or the rule. Pathetic will always be pathetic, and in my book scrub is not the worst thing to be in this game. Griefer is, because it reflects something far more pitiable in real life than a mere lack of psychokinetic skills.
I only wish you hadn't tried to explain/justify/minimize your statement. It detracts a lot from the courage of it.
If I don't answer to any replies to my post don't infer from that that I have no arguments to offer. It will just be that even though I write in the second person I'm not actually addressing the guy I quote but only expressing my view for those who can understand it. I'm not interested in bandying angry replies and I don't realistically expect people who enjoy griefing to understand any argument based on honor and empathy.
Okey dokey. Note, I entirely disagree with your comparisons of Columbine and Griefing. One was outright murder, and another is someone else having fun at another person being unable to control themselves. I never get griefed, cause I don't freak out about it. I'm more likely to PM and compliment the gank or system they used. But yes, when I get hate filled PMs, I laugh and laugh. If you freak out over a video game, then that is what I pity. I'm an asshole, not gonna change anytime soon. And the fact that I used to enjoy griefing saying a lot about me, sure. Obviously. I love pranks and pull them on my GF and the kids all the time. I find it hilarious when the 7year old can't finish his shower cause we put clear nail polish on the soap and he can't get it to lather. That's funny. And yea, it frustrated him and annoyed him, and he got upset until he realized it was a prank then he laughed(and then proceeded to set-up bungie-cords to unseat me while around the camp fire a week later...) point is, just cause you don't find it funny doesn't mean it isn't...
I understand the basis of your point however. I just don't think it applies to me based on one statement you read. And the fact that you go from nothing to pitying me, and comparing griefing to the murder of dozens of innocents is a little weird to me. But different strokes and all that. I get the dislike of people whom cause trouble or mayhem for others simply for their own amusement. But in regards to a video game, my point still stands. They are having fun. The arguement, imo anyways, boils down to this: At what point is my ability to experience the game and enjoy it supercede yours? I mean that in terms of action restrictions.
As for me "shouldn't" say this is a PvP game... Dude. It is a PvP game. It was only what? 2 months ago that PQs where even operating? No dungeons, every-single piece of high end gear either can be attained by, or requires PvP.
Lastly on this point:
Spoiler:
Only their goals somehow never included premeditated and organized expeditions in order to make helpless people feel the whole dimension of their helplessness.
And was the goal of the OPs issue for the other side to simply make them feel helpless? Or for the loot? I would say it was the loot, since I am unaware of whom was involved. In regards to my statement, A, I have never done that, and B, that wouldn't be the goal. It would be to have a fun gank fest in the low tiers. My opponents feelings don't enter into my intentions, since I have 0 control over that. If they choose to get angry, sad, happy, whatever then that is on them. I didn't :| their mother, punch their sister, pee on their car, steal their wallet, send them hate filled PMs, curse at them, or affect them personally in anyway shape or form. If they can't compartmentalize a PvP Video Game, then Yes. **** 'em. #1stworldproblems
Also, I would be interested to hear what your opinion is on groups like KO. Not insinuating KO is filled with griefers, but you seem quite intelligent, and I am sure you understand my question there.
Spoiler:
magicthighs wrote:
Dabbart wrote:
Awesome! Sounds like you run with a well organized and respectful crew. Of which, I am glad to say there seems to be a bunch of on this server. However no one can argue that ganking isn't a well established and highly practiced modus operandi. And question, What is your thoughts on invasion of LoTD? Honest inquery. At what point do you think ganking/griefing ends and intended gameplay begins? Or are you just directly against unfair based combat? I can understand that. Unchallenging games tend to get shelved pretty damned quick.
I'm curious though. Other than "twinked" based combat or lairs, what other purpose for debolster is there? I guess for tier rewards, or fighting in a lower tier so you don't get smashed by the high geared/RRd t3 pop. But that might fall under the "twinked" portion.
I still fail to see the issue with a group of lvl 8-10's getting rolled while attempting lairs. Currently 15 is the cap for t1, but even if it was 11, and without debolster, a somewhat organize crew of 11's would take them, and then the loot. The lair is in the PvP zone. Is this not what is supposed to happen?
I loved LotD instance invasions. Just a few weeks ago I had a lot of fun when some destro players came to the BFP hero lair and attacked me and the other people waiting there. I have nothing against that, and I think it's a fun part of the game. I just think it's pretty lame when a debolstered group of people come to a t1 lair and kill the lowbies that are waiting, and then laugh at them.
I think debolster will be just fine once the tier brackets are back to normal (1-11 instead of 1-13, etc). Then the lvl 8-9 lowbies would stand a better chance against a debolstered group.
Ok fair enough, sorry I misread what you where trying to say. I thought you where against the attacking in general, not mainly the debolster. However... Debolster is in affect. And the tier caps are in effect. And unless the gankers where Devs they have 0 say in any of that. What they wanted was the loot that was on offer via the lair boss, we are all tossing around names for these types of people in a negative light, but where they even aware that there was a lowbie group there? OP said he was waiting for 3 hrs. Possible that the other side had been waiting for that lair boss same amount of time, and the lowbies where simply in the way? We're casting our assumptions onto the intent behind the players w/o knowledge. In regards to the laughing at them... Well. They found something funny. I LoL at deaths/kills sometimes, if something that happened was funny to me.
To that point... I fail to see any real way to solve the "problem" that is perceived. Except to remove debolster.
TLDR: I'm a prick, attempt to put things into context, ramble on for 20 pages.
