Battlegrounds (read as scenarios) 101

[mdillard]

Oh the internet, where people claim to want conversations and at the first sight of them being wrong they start calling people trolls.

If you're also saying you can't kill healers first, I am going to call you a troll.
It's the more polite thing to do.

[bloodi]

If you're also saying you can't kill healers first, I am going to call you a troll.
It's the more polite thing to do.

And what will happen when almost everyone tells you the same?

Because, that is the problem here, that the people you are calling trolls are right, the fact that you are new to the game and trying to tell everyone how to play it and calling trolls to the ones who disagree is rather funny.

[mdillard]

From my experience it's usually quite difficult to drop healers. Particularly in PUGs where it's difficult to focus. I play SW and I don't have the burst to take out a healer, unless he's not paying attention and I can get a knock down coupled with M2.

What I do is pick a squishy target to try and burst. If that doesn't work and he starts getting heals I'll rotate onto something else.

And that's probably the right thing to do if enough people won't focus to burst anybody down.
That doesn't make it inadvisable to go after the healers first, it makes it advisable to have enough people knowing to burst healers do it together.

If you're in a premade, believe me, bursting healers down, OR tanks after the healers are gone isn't an issue.

Nothing in the OP is going to fix PUGs that make no effort to coordinate, or make them superior to a premade, they are just really simple rules of thumb to make things smoother.

Are they simple enough for EVERYBODY to grasp?
Apparently not.

[mdillard]

Because, that is the problem here, that the people you are calling trolls are right, the fact that you are new to the game and trying to tell everyone how to play it and calling trolls to the ones who disagree is rather funny.

Then if you have INFORMATION give me INFORMATION.
It's not information that disagrees with mine that annoys me, if I'm WRONG, I want to know.
If you're going to talk to me like an idiot, I'm going to miss the information as I react to that.

Pass the information, I'll test it and decide if I agree, like EVERYBODY ELSE.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree about when to kill the healers though.

[mdillard]

I'm just noting that only two people are saying don't kill the healers first.

But okay, I'll play your game.

Explain to me in terms meant to pass information, why it's smarter not to kill the healers first.

Why is YOUR game, such a unique snowflake that this very FUNDAMENTAL piece of player vs player technique is suddenly not valid.

[bloodi]

I'm just noting that only two people are saying don't kill the healers first.

But okay, I'll play your game.

Explain to me in terms meant to pass information, why it's smarter not to kill the healers first.

They already did so, actually read the posts instead of getting mad about them, 3form already gave you an explanation why, WAr is not a game where you can just say "kill healers" its heavily volatile.

So to pass information, you first need to be able to recieve it without flipping your **** and start dismissing people as trolls.

Furthermore, healers can get debuffed so they can output only 25% of their healing values, however they still retain their better detaunts compared to the mdps and they usually also have better peeling and kiting tools, so the usual rule is to punt tanks out of guard range, put a heal debuff on the dps and kill them, not kill healers first.

[mdillard]

Furthermore, healers can get debuffed so they can output only 25% of their healing values, however they still retain their better detaunts compared to the mdps and they usually also have better peeling and kiting tools, so the usual rule is to punt tanks out of guard range, put a heal debuff on the dps and kill them, not kill healers first.

Now I understand, in terms of game mechanics, why that is the case.
I didn't see this explanation in any other post but i'll go back and look.

[magter3001]

I'm just noting that only two people are saying don't kill the healers first.

But okay, I'll play your game.

Explain to me in terms meant to pass information, why it's smarter not to kill the healers first.

Why is YOUR game, such a unique snowflake that this very FUNDAMENTAL piece of player vs player technique is suddenly not valid.

Let's start this off.

In most scenarios in the game, there are various choke points that make it hard for someone to run through due to collision. All players give out collision, including tanks and mdps that you try to run through. This alone increases the difficulty of getting to a healer first in any engagement.

Two, Healers are usually in the very backline of the whole fight. In order to get to them, you have to navigate through tanks, mdps, and rdps. Good players will always switch their targets to their biggest threat. For example, if a WH pops up in the backline, the rdps aren't just going to ignore him and let him kill the healers. No they will disarm the WH, healers will detaunt him, and all the rdps are gonna give him a new hole.

Three, there is an abundance of snares in this game, especially AoE snares, that are different from most games. This puts more crowd control options in this game as opposed to others. If you're running at 60% speed as soon as you leave the melee zone, and head to the rdps zone... they will eat you alive.

Four, going to the enemy healer's backlines puts you out of range of your own healers which means you're not getting any heals to survive the damage everyone is gonna do to you as you try to get to the healer.

Five, Healers have a lot of defensive abilities. They have punt, AoE detaunt, cleanse, a solid M2, and of course heals. Even if you have two people on one healer, it can be really difficult to take them down.

Six, If everyone just bum rushes the enemy healers, they just leave their own healers for the taking. God forbid you have bad healers who just stand still all the time and don't have a clue on how to heal and kite at the same time. Also, chances are your healers numbers may be lower than that of the enemy.

Can add more but I've already spend enough time on this.

[mdillard]

Can add more but I've already spend enough time on this.

Thank you, what you added is what I was looking for, very much appreciated.
A lot of that IS stuff I didn't know that is specific to WAR, that I would have LIKED to have had explained to me BEFORE an argument broke out instead of after.

And yes I am sorry for my part in extending the argument when this is actually what I was after.

[Prime]

There is lots of good advice here. Great post.