A different kind of Bias

[Marsares]

It's amazing how eight years of QQ about an ability and continued misinformation about it makes people tired of talking about it. I'll get to my response on the other thread when I have the time/patience for it.

Honestly, if you are tired of talking about it, i suggest you stop posting in that thread. It is semi-useless anyway since no decisions will be made based around threads outside of Balance Discussion forum. So relax, ignore what people post there, and get ready for the real deal in the (hopefully) near future.

And that's why I stopped posting there.

(a) There was no point as it was not on the balance forum
(b) The pitchfork brigade just cried for a nerf without proper reasoning or evidence
(c) The strawmanning, ad hominems and blatant propaganda just took ridiculous proportions.

I'm all for arguing a case, but when you do so against people that are - at least most of them - opinionated, have made up their mind and clearly do not understand the class they wish to see nerfed, then it just becomes a waste of time.

[Liandel]

It's amazing how eight years of QQ about an ability and continued misinformation about it makes people tired of talking about it. I'll get to my response on the other thread when I have the time/patience for it.

Honestly, if you are tired of talking about it, i suggest you stop posting in that thread. It is semi-useless anyway since no decisions will be made based around threads outside of Balance Discussion forum. So relax, ignore what people post there, and get ready for the real deal in the (hopefully) near future.

And that's why I stopped posting there.

(a) There was no point as it was not on the balance forum
(b) The pitchfork brigade just cried for a nerf without proper reasoning or evidence
(c) The strawmanning, ad hominems and blatant propaganda just took ridiculous proportions.

I'm all for arguing a case, but when you do so against people that are - at least most of them - opinionated, have made up their mind and clearly do not understand the class they wish to see nerfed, then it just becomes a waste of time.

I hear ya. I'm glad they decided to lock it.

For me, even though it's an enormous hassle, I just have to state what I feel. This is the only option available for me to get to play the class I love in the game I love, so I must defend it against the witch hunt. I don't wanna have to go back to Rift full time!

[Nidwin]

And you have every right and good reasons to do so Liandel, as do you other fellow WL's. But I still say that Jinglebells 2-3-4 shot Nidwinqq back then on the live servers.

As for me there's no need to defend the Magus as everyone knows

NERf MAGUS !!!

[lilshoota]

As an example, a few days ago while roaming on magus -- cutted part irrelevant for my response -- I came across a solo White lion, again I opened on him, tried to cc him, while I tried to cc him his pet continued to attack me, needless to say he destroyed me in seconds. I looked up my combat log to see what he had used, 5 pounces and 2 other attacks. He is your hard counter I hear you cry suck it up. So should I just run, well you cant cos pet runs faster than you and he will pounce you to death. Now I dont think the class is broken but I think it should have some tweeks to pet and increased ap cost on pounce. Every other melee class needs to think about positioning and counter cc WL does not that is why there are so many WL on this server compared with live.

I'm sorry but I've to respond to this one, friendly neighbourhood dev, because it has raised a question in my mind.

So lilshoota,
Are you telling me that you consider a WL a hard Magus counter while the actual end-game gear is annihilator based with 40RR40 as max rank while what could help the WL against a Magus as renown abilities stuff isn't working yet?
Do you think that all the pukes out here, posting on the forums and ask for a WL nerf by adding a CD and whatever else to pounce, think the same as you that the WL is a hard Magus counter?

I'm not flaming you lilshoota and this isn't any form or kind of insult. I'm currious about your and others response because it could help me and others understand where we actually are as a playerbase.

What I mean by hard counter is that I don't think I currently have any tools that are effective against WL at 40/40. I have a fighting chance against other classes but with the strong and fast pet and pounce combination together with high burst its game over. If you add to that the large distance they can gap close on you with lion slow, charge and pounce if they see you they will catch you very quickly. I have currently multiple ways to kite melee but these are just not effective against WL.
Now as previously explained in the thread if their pounce is lit up and they need to gap close of course they will spam it to get in range. It may be that we are using much higher weapons and damage than armour and defence which helps explain why they don't suffer AP problems as much as on live. What I tried to point out is that WL has come to rely on pounce as an answer to every situation, gap closer, damage, cc avoidance, focusing targets, even to escape when focused, they don't even bother to use bypass defences anymore, just pounce onto walls its less risky as you can just be healed and drop off again if you need. Pounce is useful and pounce is fun so you can't blame the WL for using it, but look at it from non WL point of View when combat log reads pounce, pounce, pounce, pounce, pounce, co-ordinated strike, cull the weak, dead or something like that. This is why many see it as a problem I feel and they feel more powerful than on live, it may not be the case it needs changed at all that better armour and defensive stats will balance it. I might be talking crap but you ask me what I see when I look at WL out of curiosity and this is what I see so please no ranting and raving how noob I am if anyone disagrees. If I am wrong tell me why I am always willing to learn

[Nidwin]

Lilshoota

Ok, I see the issue here. You try to kite and rdps the WL on your Magus, didn't think about it when I posted. My mistake as I tend to forget that a lot of folks play the Magus exclusively as a kiting rdps. This is not my shop so can't help you or any kiting rdps in this case.

[Morf]

Just thought i would point out (as the other pounce thread was locked) and the op mentioned my name, i dont think pounce is fine at all but slapping a cooldown on it imo would kill the class.

Also Liandel, most players recognize your name as an experienced wl player from live and may see you as having more say on the matter due to the time you spent playing the class, what some ppl wont know is you are also well known for using any exploit, trick whatever you want to call it to gain an advantage over other players, fair or not, so when you say your piece on pounce and wl's in general i have no doubt what you say is completely biased to the class you love, white lions, and should not be taking seriously at all.

[Akalukz]

Just thought i would point out (as the other pounce thread was locked) and the op mentioned my name, i dont think pounce is fine at all but slapping a cooldown on it imo would kill the class.

Also Liandel, most players recognize your name as an experienced wl player from live and may see you as having more say on the matter due to the time you spent playing the class, what some ppl wont know is you are also well known for using any exploit, trick whatever you want to call it to gain an advantage over other players, fair or not, so when you say your piece on pounce and wl's in general i have no doubt what you say is completely biased to the class you love, white lions, and should not be taking seriously at all.

LOL, after 8 years..... same arguments / defense of WL... and same accusations of Liandel Good stuff, almost like home.

[Penril]

Just thought i would point out (as the other pounce thread was locked) and the op mentioned my name, i dont think pounce is fine at all but slapping a cooldown on it imo would kill the class.

Also Liandel, most players recognize your name as an experienced wl player from live and may see you as having more say on the matter due to the time you spent playing the class, what some ppl wont know is you are also well known for using any exploit, trick whatever you want to call it to gain an advantage over other players, fair or not, so when you say your piece on pounce and wl's in general i have no doubt what you say is completely biased to the class you love, white lions, and should not be taking seriously at all.

You just reminded me of Thunderstout. Is that available in RoR? Yeah, I know +76 wasn't that much at rr100, but still it gives you a clear picture how certain players will do anything to gain an advantage, fair or not, even if it is almost insignificant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IMsUyKNpco

Anyway, i'm 100% confident that similar exploits like that won't be allowed in RoR.

[mursie]

You just reminded me of Thunderstout. Is that available in RoR? Yeah, I know +76 wasn't that much at rr100, but still it gives you a clear picture how certain players will do anything to gain an advantage, fair or not, even if it is almost insignificant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IMsUyKNpco

Anyway, i'm 100% confident that similar exploits like that won't be allowed in RoR.

booo -

the forum threads at the beginning made it sound a lot better than it was (although it was awesome). It was a blessing that could be severed..hence why the Coholic's of the game would stack it 5x so that it took awhile to remove. But it wasn't a heal pot (you had to have it on before entering the sc). And it didn't stack on itself...

has anyone checked to see if the quest exists on ror. would be fun to drink it one last time for old time's sake =)