Duel Tournament - Open: June 11th

[gebajger]

Aye, much gratz. Rioz beat everyone handily.

And yez. I apologize. I keep zpelling his name with an S for zome ztrange reazon. I will try my bezt to break myzelf from that horrendouz habit.

Awesome to zee zomeone elze kill dirtyz. That damn Chozen has far too big a head for hiz zhoulderz...

Long Live The rioZ

Also, I feel free to post up any specific types or organization of Duelz you guys would like to have. Or what you think "fair" balancing would be/take for some classes to be able to take part. Do the AM/RP/Shaman/Zealots out there think that they could handle fighting in a "cage"? What Ruleset would you like/dislike to see?

Apology accepted, Cptn Dabbart


Overlord Rioz

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

Sorry but no. All I heard was: 'this isn't dueling/omg when will this end/this is boring/ban him from dueling'. I've been dueling for 5/6 years and it is 90% of what I did on live - I know of what I speak. I will not have my dueling style criticized if I see that the criticism is unwarranted.

1) No time limit was given. If you're organising an open tourney with DPS healers, YOU SHOULD EXPECT FOR DUELS TO LAST FOR ETERNITY.

2) I respec'd to duel Rememberme because respeccing is allowed, is it not? Sorry for taking 5minutes! (would be nice to have career trainers on standby during these events =P )

3) It's an open tourney. If you allow DPS healers, then there ought to be no problem with defensive heal tanks.

4) I minded my own until about 4 different people (all of whom were knocked out of the tournament/weren't participating?) started commenting on the tactic. Also I was fighting Hurgon for a good hour: is it my fault that I was given this opponent, both of us being defensive heal tanks? This is an inherent problem to random open tournaments.


Anyway let's refrain from escalating this, shall we? I've said my peace. I await Dirtyz's comments regarding this as he is the organiser of these events.

You seem to not be getting the point.

1, It wasn't expected actually. We thought healers might have an issue, and where going to try and get them to handicap themselves via not using main heal attack if it happened. Didn't think it would with tanks. As I said a bunch. This is a learning process, and we form new rules based on past issues.

2, Yes it is allowed in between fights. But you stopped mid fight with Hurgon, and basically forced us to reseed you to fight someone else. And you don't need a career trainer. YOu can respec at any flightmaster with the addon AnywhereTrainer. Simply highlight the flightmaster, and the addon will actually allow you to use the respec option.

3, And there wasn't. Hence why you competed and placed 2nd? We are talking about moving forward how will we deal with this.

4, Yes. A good hour. And yet, you don't believe people have a right to comment after waiting patiently for an hour watching you do the exact same tactic over and over again? We watched your health drop to less than 50%, punt/kite regen. We commented. The brackets are determined in the Open to try and give everyone a chance. We didn't want ranged healer to smash a melee tank in the first round, so we divided them up so archtypes fought similar archtypes. The point you are purposefully ignoring though, is what ability do you have to Kill a defensive Tank/healer? The strat and build you employed didn't allow you to accomplish this did it? It allowed you to survive, very very well.

And again, we ran this open tournie to find out the issues inherent with particular classes and matchups without just making the assumption. No-one thought there would be this issue with a BG. It was great that you employed it, cause now we get to figure it out.

And I am the Co-Organizer. I help, assist, fund, and offer my advice. That's the 2nd time you have politely told me to shut-up and wait for Dirtyz to make a statement. I want him to have OPTIONS on what to do. hence why I am still pursuing this arguement.

You and your guild come out to a LOT of dueling events. I like this and want it to continue. I also happen to like you as a person, I think you're funny and a decent debater. I am trying very hard to get the point across that no one is insulting you or your build. You followed the rules perfectly fine. You violated nothing. There was no cheating or being cheap.

But what do we do next time? Stop defending yourself or attacking other people for a second and think about a solution. Cause... Unfortunately, even if you think my suggestions are unfair or stupid, they are the only suggestions being put forth. Telling us that we have to put up with hour+ length duels isn't going to work. Cause we wont. And when I say we, I know cause I already spoke to dirtyz about this during the event. It sucked standing there watching un killables. And not just the BG! The DoK/WP duel all but garunteed neither will ever be allowed in another dueling tournie we run.

For God's Sake. Give us an alternative to coming up with arbitrary draconian rules to off-set "viable strategies". We are all aware that under the rule-set employed yesterday you are perfectly in the clear. Just know, that wont be the same as next time. So why don't you try helping?

[peterthepan3]

Spoiler:

Sorry but no. All I heard was: 'this isn't dueling/omg when will this end/this is boring/ban him from dueling'. I've been dueling for 5/6 years and it is 90% of what I did on live - I know of what I speak. I will not have my dueling style criticized if I see that the criticism is unwarranted.

1) No time limit was given. If you're organising an open tourney with DPS healers, YOU SHOULD EXPECT FOR DUELS TO LAST FOR ETERNITY.

2) I respec'd to duel Rememberme because respeccing is allowed, is it not? Sorry for taking 5minutes! (would be nice to have career trainers on standby during these events =P )

3) It's an open tourney. If you allow DPS healers, then there ought to be no problem with defensive heal tanks.

4) I minded my own until about 4 different people (all of whom were knocked out of the tournament/weren't participating?) started commenting on the tactic. Also I was fighting Hurgon for a good hour: is it my fault that I was given this opponent, both of us being defensive heal tanks? This is an inherent problem to random open tournaments.


Anyway let's refrain from escalating this, shall we? I've said my peace. I await Dirtyz's comments regarding this as he is the organiser of these events.

You seem to not be getting the point.

1, It wasn't expected actually. We thought healers might have an issue, and where going to try and get them to handicap themselves via not using main heal attack if it happened. Didn't think it would with tanks. As I said a bunch. This is a learning process, and we form new rules based on past issues.

2, Yes it is allowed in between fights. But you stopped mid fight with Hurgon, and basically forced us to reseed you to fight someone else. And you don't need a career trainer. YOu can respec at any flightmaster with the addon AnywhereTrainer. Simply highlight the flightmaster, and the addon will actually allow you to use the respec option.

3, And there wasn't. Hence why you competed and placed 2nd? We are talking about moving forward how will we deal with this.

4, Yes. A good hour. And yet, you don't believe people have a right to comment after waiting patiently for an hour watching you do the exact same tactic over and over again? We watched your health drop to less than 50%, punt/kite regen. We commented. The brackets are determined in the Open to try and give everyone a chance. We didn't want ranged healer to smash a melee tank in the first round, so we divided them up so archtypes fought similar archtypes. The point you are purposefully ignoring though, is what ability do you have to Kill a defensive Tank/healer? The strat and build you employed didn't allow you to accomplish this did it? It allowed you to survive, very very well.

And again, we ran this open tournie to find out the issues inherent with particular classes and matchups without just making the assumption. No-one thought there would be this issue with a BG. It was great that you employed it, cause now we get to figure it out.

And I am the Co-Organizer. I help, assist, fund, and offer my advice. That's the 2nd time you have politely told me to shut-up and wait for Dirtyz to make a statement. I want him to have OPTIONS on what to do. hence why I am still pursuing this arguement.

You and your guild come out to a LOT of dueling events. I like this and want it to continue. I also happen to like you as a person, I think you're funny and a decent debater. I am trying very hard to get the point across that no one is insulting you or your build. You followed the rules perfectly fine. You violated nothing. There was no cheating or being cheap.

But what do we do next time? Stop defending yourself or attacking other people for a second and think about a solution. Cause... Unfortunately, even if you think my suggestions are unfair or stupid, they are the only suggestions being put forth. Telling us that we have to put up with hour+ length duels isn't going to work. Cause we wont. And when I say we, I know cause I already spoke to dirtyz about this during the event. It sucked standing there watching un killables. And not just the BG! The DoK/WP duel all but garunteed neither will ever be allowed in another dueling tournie we run.

For God's Sake. Give us an alternative to coming up with arbitrary draconian rules to off-set "viable strategies". We are all aware that under the rule-set employed yesterday you are perfectly in the clear. Just know, that wont be the same as next time. So why don't you try helping?

Stopped midfight because the duel wasn't ending and I was ASKED to respec, actually.

Have not told you to 'shut up', just asking for Dirtyz's opinions on the matter as your opinion is very obvious and apparent to me don't worry

People do have a right to complain, but if a duel takes a while then a duel takes a while - simple. If you pit two defensive tanks against one another and expect it to be over in a few minutes then lul.

I'd be more than happy to help think of some suggestions, and will start pondering now. You're a cool guy and I respect what you do, so let's leave it at that.

[Eathisword]

I wasn'T at the event, but just chiming in...

Its a two sided coin... Peter is right in the sense that some melee classes have no chance if they don't kite other melee classes (GnM IB will never lose toe to toe vs SnB chosen for example, so chosen has to kite the heal). So this argument is a valid one.

BUT

reviewing our duels, Mister Peter, I realized my mistake : when someone /flee to outlive the self heal, the most valid counter-counter is to /flee in the opposite direction and reset the fight. Chasing the fleeing guy is a mistake. So although i believe this tactic to be a valid one in RvR... in duel, versus a smart opponent (Aka, not me :p), fleeing away as a melee just resets the fight. Which is kinda boring.

Oh and yes, play the magus! Still one of the best duel I had... even though i lost xD

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

I wasn'T at the event, but just chiming in...

Its a two sided coin... Peter is right in the sense that some melee classes have no chance if they don't kite other melee classes (GnM IB will never lose toe to toe vs SnB chosen for example, so chosen has to kite the heal). So this argument is a valid one.

BUT

reviewing our duels, Mister Peter, I realized my mistake : when someone /flee to outlive the self heal, the most valid counter-counter is to /flee in the opposite direction and reset the fight. Chasing the fleeing guy is a mistake. So although i believe this tactic to be a valid one in RvR... in duel, versus a smart opponent (Aka, not me :p), fleeing away as a melee just resets the fight. Which is kinda boring.

Oh and yes, play the magus! Still one of the best duel I had... even though i lost xD

Good point actually. fleeing in opposite to reset combat would be a very good strategy. And, I have seen people do this in random duels that they start to lose. KD/flee. The size limit on arena would be the best way to deal with this, but I honestly HATE that suggestion. Don't pen them in, that seriously harms a lot of classes. We could do that if you kite past say 175ft of your opponent it's a DQ. You have to stay in combat range at all times maybe? We could disallow Punting of any type also, but that wouldn't solve the issue.


And Peterpan3, no the duel wont just "take awhile" cause if there is no answer then a time limit will be enforced, which means all sorts of stupid rules for determining who actually "won". From a Judge, to a point based "who did the most damage" or other arbitrary crap. That's my point. I don't want to go to the easiest solution, cause they tend to be blanket stupidity that just leads to more anger/offense being taken. I want to get it right. But if for the sake of the majorities enjoyment if we have to instate dumb-rules on a few specific classes/tactics then we will. The game isn't balanced for 1v1, so it is upon us the actual duelers to conpensate if we want a tournament.

Ofc, all of this is entirely irrelevant to any other type of Dueling Event besides a tournament. For Fun duels can have draws all day long. Mostly, cause no one is actively waiting on the combatants to finish. You can just go find someone else to fight/watch. It is always an option to just not run a Tournament again. Not an option I want to take however.

[Dirtyz]

ok, idk what's up with me trying to submit a comment but i think this thing hates me. Deleted my proposal like twice already :/

[Dirtyz]

I do understand both concerns and I respect both of Dab and Inc, both main points are valid and I do agree.

So here is my proposal ( jk it's Sweet's only with a slight tweak ) :

1. A set boundary/arena. Simple. Everyone makes a circle 100ft in diameter and if anyone who are not supposed to be in there is ganked and so on. During duels, if either combatant steps out of the circle, this will result in a loss. Being forced out will also result in a loss which means PUNTS and KB's are still allowed. Now, before you guys get all "oh that's unfair, BG/IB super punt for dayyzzz" *yawn* yes, that makes me yawn. shush now

Considering that the arena will be 100ft in diameter still gives room to kite but not infinite room. That's what we're trying to prevent here. INFINITE KITING.

If this were to be agreed by the dueling community and implemented, another variable would have to be added to DISCOURAGE punting/kb that results on a win. So:
For every X amount of wins that results from a punt or KB ( or just every punt or KB win to make it easier ) , Y amount of gold will be reduced from their placement ( if they place top 3 ) .
Unless you have a better proposal concerning this, I'd love to hear it of course with reasoning
( not any imbecilic reasoning )
^.^ kappa

Now, this is supposed to DISCOURAGE, not abolish, the punting and KB abilities. Also, for SH/SW with you guys' cheesy snare + KB, those two classes will be excluded because they can just lure their opponent to the border and punt themselves back which results in them losing but also their opponent winning due to a punt which in turn makes them lose mula.
Even if the punt was miscalculated, it will still effect your pot reward if you place.

2. Simple. 5 minute time limit for each duel. If neither combatant can absolutely murder each other in cold blood, then whoever is at the LOWEST HP will lose when the limit is reached. Again. Simple. I don't want to hear any other proposals concerning this. GG no replay. - automatic win - will be implemented ... jk criticism is welcome, but most likely you will all agree and will be implemented nevertheless.

:)7 Dirty Z

P.S. Next time, if you had concerns, use the damn duel tourney brainstorm thread that i provided. >.< That's why it's there, to prevent flooding salty comments ( yes, i got a hint of salt from both arguments ) .

Edit: ugh :)7 = o7 i tot the emote would fit perf with it but it didn't look pleasing xP

[Dabbart]

1. Try it out and see how it works. I have a feeling this will work better with punts simply disallowed. But trial and error will be the best.

2. With a good count-down this could be entirely viable. If it's entirely even, you need to save your spike for the right moment.

And Salt is good for you. There was a time/place where Salt was worth it's weight in Gold. But I'm sorry, I entirely forgot about the other thread.

[peterthepan3]

Punts are very important to some classes...seriously I don't know if you're trolling half the time.

Anyway your proposed rules seem fair enough.

[Bretin]

I've been dueling for 5/6 years and it is 90% of what I did on live - I know of what I speak.

#petertheduelist2k16