Why do you think that WH Online (Mythic) didn't was successfull?

[Penril]

Peril you just did exactly what Sedok posited... interesting.

But more to the point, I'd like to know what exactly was different about BW/Sorc "back then." Can you tell me what made them so ridiculous? I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm truly asking out of ignorance. I don't think that I played Live long enough to even remember the state of balance.

It has been explained a bazillion times over 8+ years. Nothing personal m8 but i'm not about to explain it again just because someone said "balance was fine in WAR from the start". Maybe someone else will.

[lilsabin]

i think the answer is simple , go play other MMOs and you ll understand why warhammer failed

[Sedok]

Yeah... no. BW and Sorcs were ridiculously OP at one point.

It has been explained a bazillion times over 8+ years. Nothing personal m8 but i'm not about to explain it again just because someone said "balance was fine in WAR from the start". Maybe someone else will.

WAR's class balance overall was fine; yes like every other game it had its growing pains and Mythic didn't jump on somethings fast enough (I pointed that out in my post), but it does not deserve the reputation it has on the matter, especially when the players are more at fault.

Do you know why BWs were seen as OP originally? Ruin and Destruction; an M2 that did 1200 damage (equivalent to an M3) to everyone with 30ft. and when used with Embrace the Flames tactic, BWs could build to a morale drop in ~22-24 seconds, the fastest of any dps class (the only career building faster than that was the Zealot). This is the strategy that lead to the bombing meta and during that time period EVERYONE bitched about the BW because they would only see it played in highly-coordinated premades. <Crimson> on Karak-Norn was the perfect example of this; everytime they would enter the lakes, the Destro bitchfest began. Rather than try to come up with a way to beat them, they opted instead to complain on the forums to get it nerf'd.

What a lot of people fail to remember is that bombing is only effective against uncoordinated groups (unless you get a good jump) and its an all-or-nothing strategy; if you're morale dump doesn't wipe them, you're screwed, because you sacrifice your positioning. That meta didn't last long and people moved onto to melee trains quite quickly (then after that trains with sidecars if the fight warranted it). My point is that even if Ruin and Destruction stayed as is and bombing was still king, it was the players that failed to properly come up with a counter for that meta; there were tools there to deal with BWs during that time, but they didn't use them.

You'll be the first and last to say WAR's class balance was fine. There was a reason certain classes NEVER got a look in in a group, while others were mandatory.

Metas change, classes shift in and out of popularity. SWs were the lepers of Order until Ruin and Destruction's nerf and then they became the kings of Order AoE with Lileath's Arrow. SHs were seen as only good in small-scale, until people discovered Bad Gas. Magi were considered inferior to the Engineer until people learn the proper rotation with Warpfire and realized that they were the class with the highest AoE dps in the game. Chosen were considered inferior to Knights because they didn't have Dirty Tricks, until one day someone decided to combine Rending Blade and Crippling Strikes. Every class had that time period where they were seen as "useless" until people experimented and found new ways of doing things.

The only time classes became mandatory was once a lot of people started getting to rr100, and slowly the only viable healers became WPs/DoKs because clothies lacked the necessary mitigation to deal with the caped stats of the dps. This wasn't a class issue though, it was a progression/power level one.

[Darosh]

The only time classes became mandatory was once a lot of people started getting to rr100, and slowly the only viable healers became WPs/DoKs because clothies lacked the necessary mitigation to deal with the caped stats of the dps. This wasn't a class issue though, it was a progression/power level one.

Don't forget the duped LotD stuff that almost everyone and their mother sported... the gear later on down the road enabled way to many extremes - ofc people would pick the most broken ones and run with them.

[Arteker616]

Yeah... no. BW and Sorcs were ridiculously OP at one point.

It has been explained a bazillion times over 8+ years. Nothing personal m8 but i'm not about to explain it again just because someone said "balance was fine in WAR from the start". Maybe someone else will.

WAR's class balance overall was fine; yes like every other game it had its growing pains and Mythic didn't jump on somethings fast enough (I pointed that out in my post), but it does not deserve the reputation it has on the matter, especially when the players are more at fault.

Do you know why BWs were seen as OP originally? Ruin and Destruction; an M2 that did 1200 damage (equivalent to an M3) to everyone with 30ft. and when used with Embrace the Flames tactic, BWs could build to a morale drop in ~22-24 seconds, the fastest of any dps class (the only career building faster than that was the Zealot). This is the strategy that lead to the bombing meta and during that time period EVERYONE bitched about the BW because they would only see it played in highly-coordinated premades. <Crimson> on Karak-Norn was the perfect example of this; everytime they would enter the lakes, the Destro bitchfest began. Rather than try to come up with a way to beat them, they opted instead to complain on the forums to get it nerf'd.

What a lot of people fail to remember is that bombing is only effective against uncoordinated groups (unless you get a good jump) and its an all-or-nothing strategy; if you're morale dump doesn't wipe them, you're screwed, because you sacrifice your positioning. That meta didn't last long and people moved onto to melee trains quite quickly (then after that trains with sidecars if the fight warranted it). My point is that even if Ruin and Destruction stayed as is and bombing was still king, it was the players that failed to properly come up with a counter for that meta; there were tools there to deal with BWs during that time, but they didn't use them.

You'll be the first and last to say WAR's class balance was fine. There was a reason certain classes NEVER got a look in in a group, while others were mandatory.

Metas change, classes shift in and out of popularity. SWs were the lepers of Order until Ruin and Destruction's nerf and then they became the kings of Order AoE with Lileath's Arrow. SHs were seen as only good in small-scale, until people discovered Bad Gas. Magi were considered inferior to the Engineer until people learn the proper rotation with Warpfire and realized that they were the class with the highest AoE dps in the game. Chosen were considered inferior to Knights because they didn't have Dirty Tricks, until one day someone decided to combine Rending Blade and Crippling Strikes. Every class had that time period where they were seen as "useless" until people experimented and found new ways of doing things.

The only time classes became mandatory was once a lot of people started getting to rr100, and slowly the only viable healers became WPs/DoKs because clothies lacked the necessary mitigation to deal with the caped stats of the dps. This wasn't a class issue though, it was a progression/power level one.

Someone dont remember 2 years of of BW aoe Stun , non cd snare , wps having only grp cleanse or aoe detaunt for years , original ravage , black orc pre 1,2 , ranged shatter enchantment , 50% chosen aura healing reduction , stacking ktbos dmg auras , sorc single target lifetap or party 35% dmg buff , original cave in from ibs , retail dps doks , or original WE kiss system with armour debuff , choppa ini debuff and armour stacking debuff , broken slayer id , and spellbreaker removing hots, the original marauder aoe three(yes marauder used to be the very best aoe mdps in game ) original mele sh three(that 30% critic tactic u could get at lvl 21), do you remember how many people u could pulll with rift magnet at start of the game? because it would affect up to 12 players if i recall ,original dark elf racial tactic , scorching earth spam ,



list is so long
p.s i forgot to say scorching earth was bugged for a while , it did not triggered combustion dmg to bw . this was my first experience with a keep in t2 , we broke the door , moved in and i watched to die around 70 players before they even reached the stairs towards lord from aoe dmg bypassing walls. nobody reached or saaw even a order player , they just spamed it and killed us all .

we tried 2 times untill people become so epic angry they just said **** it . my little guild back then lostn that day half his players wich went back to wow with a epic massive angry face

[Toonman]

Warhammer Online release "balance" summed up in 1 image:

[Wdova]

i think the answer is simple , go play other MMOs and you ll understand why warhammer failed

I tried lots of MMOs before I get to WAR: AoR and also tried lots of MMOs after WAR dies. I trully understand why ppl play WoW, but I realized why WAR was so special and why people was styl playing it after the end of the game was near. To me WAR is best PvP mmo I have ever played with some OK PvE content. PvE part never was so great like in other MMOs, but game was never centered around PvE.

WAR died by so many original devs bad decisions, money investment to other projects and thanks to releases of other MMOs in its period.

[footpatrol2]

I agree with you Sedok.

Player's give up too easily and don't think outside of the box to deal with the current problem.

There is still SO much to be discovered. I never stopped exploring.

What sucks is seeing things change before you have a chance to fully explore it.
I think a lot of it is community. Expectations...perception of what should be balance...change things for me instead of working as a team to deal with the issue...Completely change your playstyle if needed.

This is just a niche game and not for the faint of heart.

I think mythic messed up also listening to the community. Some things were definitively broken but a lot wasn't but got changed anyway for the worse due to community outcry.

[Penril]

When footpatrol agrees with you, you know there is a flaw with your argument.

Back then, there wasn't a target limit on AoE skills. So a few BWs spamming AoE could easily wipe whole destro zergs in keeps/forts (remember, there wasn't an outer ramp so players had to funnel through one tiny ramp, getting completely obliterated).

But yeah keep going on about how BWs/Sorcs were absolutely fine in the first few years of WAR.

[Ugle]

Stacking RoF and PoS with no target limit ftw