Order: Tank discussion

[GodlessCrom]

Volgo is also rr 60+. So you're right, it depends. Lower rr IB will typically not choose the crit buff IMO, because others are worth more.

I also don't think the class is garbage. But it isn't better than knight. Your buffs are single target, cost a gcd, have a duration (i.e. they can in theory fall off) and a few of them require you to be hitting something for them to work (which means they don't function if you're being kited, or if you're mitigated by parry/block). Knight buffs have none of those disadvantages. Knight punt is also just straight up better. Ib punt isn't bad, but it isn't as good.

I like IB. I don't think it really needs many changes. But it isn't as good as Knight, like you're saying.

[TenTonHammer]

IB would be a lot more valued if KOTBS/chosen didnt have that tatic that let them have a SP on a 10s cd

having a garabge punt would make IB/BG more valued in parties

[Penril]

It is better to me. But honestly, i'm not really trying to convince anyone so... whatever you say man.

[Jaycub]

If it is bad at 6v6/6vX which you seem to agree with, what exactly does it have that makes it suddenly good at anything higher like warband play? It doesn't have any niche like engineer magnet, or DPS zealot AoE inc healdebuff that come into play at that level.

SM has NB which is extremely good, blurring shock which is borderline broken, just those 2 things alone do more than IB does imo. And that's not even mentioning the KD with no conditionals that gives the group CC immunity for a burn, or when you can drop that and get WW at higher RR.

IB just seems to fit in as a solo/duo roaming tank and that's about it.

[Penril]

I didn't say it was bad. I said it was marginally worse in 6v6 than other tanks. There is a difference. And even then, I only said that because you all think it IS worse (which I disagree with) and I simply don't want to discuss it.

Like I said, I really don't aim to convince anyone.

[GodlessCrom]

It is better to me. But honestly, i'm not really trying to convince anyone so... whatever you say man.

Lol okay. You were definitely trying to argue your point. But if you weren't trying to convince anyone, then that's good, you've succeeded, no one's convinced.

I don't think IB is quite as bad as jayc says. But i don't 6v6 much either. But its definitely not better than knight. Thats a hard point to sell to anyone playing the game right now.

[Penril]

Ok, I will discuss 6v6. Talking about a 2-2-2 melee train? K, then SM might be better than IB. 1-3-2 rdps group with SW/BW? IB>>>>>>>>SM.

Jay should know, we 6v6 his guild several months ago. Our guild isn't that good, yet we beat them badly. Reason? They had a rDPS setup with one solo tank (SM) and our BG kept punting him out of guard range while Sorc/SH killed the guarded target. We also 6v6 them on other occasions where they ran a melee train, or some tank other than SM in a 1-3-2 and they beat us soundly. So yeah: you have a guild that beat us the majority of time, and then they used a SM to 6v6 us and they lost badly. Had they used an IB they would probably have won as usual.

Also, rDPS setups are king in RvR. I would definitely be wary of having a SM or BO as solo tank in a 1-3-2. BG/IB are much better.

And yeah, IB>KotBS for me. We can agree to disagree.

[GodlessCrom]

Okay, I agree with that. Sm and Bo are worse solo tanks than Ib/spike elf. Would still probably rather have a knight or chosen as solo tank IMO. Maybe less so chosen, but knight definitely.

Fair enough, agree to disagree. Ib is much more fun to play than Knight, think we can all agree to that

[Jaycub]

Running anything other than knight in 3-2-1 is dumb tho.

It's the best solo tank in the game. I agree IB is preferable to SM in 3-2-1 because any smart group as you said knows they can't punt but also we lose to other groups because they just dumpster the SM first whereas that's not possible with IB.

But neither are really contending at all against knight for a solo tank group

[Penril]

For me, only because of the resist aura. It is ridiculous how they buff for 300+ while healers are 200+. If it weren't for the resist aura, I would also prefer an IB as solo tank.