[ORVR] Brainstorming/Suggestions

[Collateral]

Remove keep lord, put a flag that takes 5 mins to cap instead.

As raga has said, if things are not really neccesary or cause issues, remove them. It sounds harsh, but at least try it.

Why not try removing the target cap, or at least increasing it? As I understand this would actually put more stress on the server, but at least organized wbs would be able to punish the zerg more. Which in turn might cause people not to blob that hard. Not likely, but a possibility.

Or try the opposite. Depending on aao of the enemy, your realm gets reduced target cap. So if enemy has 100 aao, you can only hit 3-4 people. Something like that. This obviuosly wouldn't help in huge even fights like 200v200 with no aao.

More rewards for taking and defending keeps would definitely help. Items, potions, talis, anything. Maybe something special like items and talis that last a certain amount of time only. You can make the rewards unique for each racial pairing and each tier, something flavourful even. Or you can put those items into quests. So you have to take a zone x amount of times etc.

That's all I can think of now.

[Morf]

There is no fix to RvR, players either zerg or avoid each other by taking empty zones, the current system is stale but imo some changes can slightly improve the situation.

Removing portals, they serve no purpose other then eating away at keep resources and giving players an easy way to afk at a bo.
Reintroducing bo resources for players to escort so there should be more hot spots in the lake, places for ambushing resource carriers and in turn increases the need for coordination.

Changing keep lord difficulty and how loot rolls work in low pop zones, whats worse having a huge lag fest of back and forth aoe spamming or having loot bags more easily obtainable ? after all loot makes ppl happy, sure players should gear up faster but this also means after gearing a char they will actually want to gear up an alt instead of feeling like it takes to much effort. This also allows small parties to feel as though they can actually contribute to a zone instead of just farming kills and being told they dont care about the campaign, im sure others remember on live how satisfying it was to take a small party and stop a sneak attack in a low pop zone.

Siege towers ? idk what ever happen to this idea and tbh idk if it would help anyway but it would be nice to one day see them and allow for multiple entry points into an outer keep when a zone is a close fight and posterns are locked.

City sieges/forts are the main reason to lock zones/pairings, until these happen the campaign will not be important in the grand scheme of things anyway.

[Aurandilaz]

The target cap point is also excellent one, the fact is that due to 9 target limit, in a blob only the first 9 player will be hit with enemy AoE dmg - everyone hiding behind in the blob are pretty much safe. So safety in numbers causes your blob to "blob up".
It isn't just "bad zergers", it's a legit strategy to ensure the survival of the zerg in zerg vs zerg warfare, the bigger you are, the more safer you can get inside the blob.
Say, experiment with 15 or 18 target cap AoE. Suddenly just blobbing up and trying to hide in zerg doesn't become optimal strategy, as it no longer guarantees safety from enemy damage.
Players who do not want to participate in the biggest fights where most AoE dmg is done, will know to go elsewhere. Players who just wanted to free-ride organized warbands or just follow pug blob, will come to conclusion that maybe it's better to go elsewhere because now enemy AoE just isn't tanked by the first 9 targets.

[Xergon]

In my opinion people would split more between zones, when the Lord wouldnt be that ridiculous hard...

You need 1 warband to tank and kill the boss. with that amount of players it takes 15-20 minuts to kill the Lord.
So, if now 1-2 party gonna inc, the warband wipes because of the huge damage the lord deals AoE, it requires just some moral bumps on the tanks and keeplord kills everything.
To avoid that, you need another warband to hold bottom floor.
And that is why a sone takes forever when none of the faction has AAO... With the same numbers of players you won't survive the Lord, and thats the point. If 2-3 partys decide to split, and the other faction does not react to it until doors are down, they should be able to kill the Lord. But actually 2-3 groups would take half hour to kill the Lord, and in that time they gonna be wiped by a single party and the Lord... So why should players split? they are not dumb, they know that there is no chance to kill the Lord if you dont have at least 1.5-2 WB's... Lord should scale on players in the RvR lake, or something like this.

just something to think about

That's actually not true, lord is pretty weak, 2 tanks in ruin set with armor potions, with crossguard and proper healers can hold lord w/o problems, ofc u need to slot menace tactic so u hold aggro and u have to interrupt hes AoE. But very few tanks do whats actually has to be done during lord fight i bet u that half tanks don't even know what Menace tactic is.
I've done in past taking keeps with 12 man, its really not that hard if ppl know what to do and dont slack.

I have other question, why targeting lord cut client performance so hard, can we have option to disable showing debuffs/buffs that other players apply on lord ? When i'm in lord room but w/o targeting him i can have smooth 15-20fps but after targeting lord its dropping down to 5fps...

Problem is packet exchange. The more you have ppl doing things, the more server send infos.

Exemple :
Put 300 ppl in martyr's square, walking, naked, non buffed, just walking doing nothing : everything will be fine.
Do the same, full geared, buffed, using buff, abilities, giving damages, receiving heals etcetc... : total lag.

Why?

Cause server send ALL from each player infos to each players. (position of each players in the area, buffs, name, guild, debuff, hp, damages received, dealed, incoming heals, outgoing heals, xp, rp, inf, zone infos, appearance, colors, population, AAO calculation, etcetcetc...).

A proof? if you use enemy addon, you are able to know if someone is dying 10km from your position.

Why don't you experience this issues during SC? cause number is limited and exchange are reduced.

No need to say it is exponential. Ofc, we can probably enhance the code here and there and we will try to.

If you know GW2, just ask yourself why opponent appearance are all the same, why number of abilities are limited, and you will have some explanations why it is smoother .

note : i'm not a dev/coder, and my explanation is simplist, but i think you catch the idea.

About topic if exchanging packets is really the issue and if u think that it will really solve problem, cut it as much as possible. Maybe make option for players to setup Default appearance on players so players can also help cutting down data that has to be exchanged.

If addon data transfer is the problem tell us which one cause it most or cut it your self, lets test, few days w/o addons and see how much it help...

[Natherul]

In my opinion people would split more between zones, when the Lord wouldnt be that ridiculous hard...

You need 1 warband to tank and kill the boss. with that amount of players it takes 15-20 minuts to kill the Lord.
So, if now 1-2 party gonna inc, the warband wipes because of the huge damage the lord deals AoE, it requires just some moral bumps on the tanks and keeplord kills everything.
To avoid that, you need another warband to hold bottom floor.
And that is why a sone takes forever when none of the faction has AAO... With the same numbers of players you won't survive the Lord, and thats the point. If 2-3 partys decide to split, and the other faction does not react to it until doors are down, they should be able to kill the Lord. But actually 2-3 groups would take half hour to kill the Lord, and in that time they gonna be wiped by a single party and the Lord... So why should players split? they are not dumb, they know that there is no chance to kill the Lord if you dont have at least 1.5-2 WB's... Lord should scale on players in the RvR lake, or something like this.

just something to think about

That's actually not true, lord is pretty weak, 2 tanks in ruin set with armor potions, with crossguard and proper healers can hold lord w/o problems, ofc u need to slot menace tactic so u hold aggro and u have to interrupt hes AoE. But very few tanks do whats actually has to be done during lord fight i bet u that half tanks don't even know what Menace tactic is.
I've done in past taking keeps with 12 man, its really not that hard if ppl know what to do and dont slack.

I have other question, why targeting lord cut client performance so hard, can we have option to disable showing debuffs/buffs that other players apply on lord ? When i'm in lord room but w/o targeting him i can have smooth 15-20fps but after targeting lord its dropping down to 5fps...

Problem is packet exchange. The more you have ppl doing things, the more server send infos.

Exemple :
Put 300 ppl in martyr's square, walking, naked, non buffed, just walking doing nothing : everything will be fine.
Do the same, full geared, buffed, using buff, abilities, giving damages, receiving heals etcetc... : total lag.

Why?

Cause server send ALL from each player infos to each players. (position of each players in the area, buffs, name, guild, debuff, hp, damages received, dealed, incoming heals, outgoing heals, xp, rp, inf, zone infos, appearance, colors, population, AAO calculation, etcetcetc...).

A proof? if you use enemy addon, you are able to know if someone is dying 10km from your position.

Why don't you experience this issues during SC? cause number is limited and exchange are reduced.

No need to say it is exponential. Ofc, we can probably enhance the code here and there and we will try to.

If you know GW2, just ask yourself why opponent appearance are all the same, why number of abilities are limited, and you will have some explanations why it is smoother .

note : i'm not a dev/coder, and my explanation is simplist, but i think you catch the idea.

About topic if exchanging packets is really the issue and if u think that it will really solve problem, cut it as much as possible. Maybe make option for players to setup Default appearance on players so players can also help cutting down data that has to be exchanged.

If addon data transfer is the problem tell us which one cause it most or cut it your self, lets test, few days w/o addons and see how much it help...

addons generally dont add stress to the server unless its sending and receiving more data then it normally would. Now exchange of packets is not the only (and hard to say to what extent at all) cause of lag (and also do note that when I talk lag here I mean server lag and not client lag). Two addons that comes to mind that we send data to specifically is the aggro and sor addons, this is sent from server specifically.

As for lords and why you lag when you target them in bigger fights is the number of buffs/debuffs they have, now if we had no issues already we could potentially send less info to the clients but filtering out to only send a few is extra processing (and quite a lot so).

As I stated packets is only part of whats drawing power, aggro system in general, all combat and other things also draws power. In a vacuum none of these things are an issue but when they all hit at the same time on the same localized calculation zone (thread) with many players then it becomes an issue

[zgolec]

Xp/rr gain debuff 25/50/75% if in zone [xx] ammount of people is bigger then [yy]

Its like real life - know where it hurt most of ppl? When you hit em in the wallet

[Xergon]

Xp/rr gain debuff 25/50/75% if in zone [xx] ammount of people is bigger then [yy]

Its like real life - know where it hurt most of ppl? When you hit em in the wallet

Maybe, there should be some certain MIN and MAX pull of RenownPoints/BagRolls to be shared among players from KeepTake/ZoneLock, but that number has to be known so players/WBleaders can decide if its worth to fight in that zone or move to other zone.

[oaliaen]

dont know..pve sucks .. it may have other solution.

[Jedii]

Just an idea. A capture the flag event .where there is a realm flag out the front of each keep. Steal there flag and take it back to your keep for a point. 3 points and the zone locks

[Natherul]

Xp/rr gain debuff 25/50/75% if in zone [xx] ammount of people is bigger then [yy]

Its like real life - know where it hurt most of ppl? When you hit em in the wallet

Maybe, there should be some certain MIN and MAX pull of RenownPoints/BagRolls to be shared among players from KeepTake/ZoneLock, but that number has to be known so players/WBleaders can decide if its worth to fight in that zone or move to other zone.

No doubt a debuff would be more effective then a buff but the team prefer carrot over stick if its possible. And the idea is ofc to have this system (whatever it might be) as transparent as possible as it should be clear what we want to accomplish and what gains can be had if players move.