Overarching balance changes

[Jaycub]

I think when people say something doesn't take skill they just aren't realizing it takes a different, albeit less "exciting" type of skill, but skill nonetheless.

The skill in this case being group building / build theorycrafting whatever you want to call it becomes more dominant that say mechanical or reactionary/twitch skill. More pen and paper?


A recent example being a lot of people bashing on overwatch for having mechanics like ults, and certain abilities that "take away from" the shooting aspect of the game... as if that is the only thing that truly matters in a FPS style game or takes any "real" skill.

[roadkillrobin]

Would just favor order more due to the amount of KD compared to Destro they have.

Please list me the amount of AoE Kd order has.

AoE knockdown to decline guard would be the moast broken thing in this game since release tbh.

[bloodi]

AoE knockdown to decline guard would be the moast broken thing in this game since release tbh.

Yeah just like WPs countering heal debuffs with exalted defenses and how the change would be benefitial to only order.

You just say **** for the sake of it, you dont even think what you are saying, you just make a claim and when asked to back it up make another claim that is even more stupid to avoid showing that the previous claim is unfounded.

Its the third time, i asked you about the WP, you didnt reply, i asked you to list the amount of AoE kd order has on their disposal, you didnt reply.

Now enligthen us all, why it would be the most broken thing ever.

[Jaycub]

What classes even have AoE knockdown?

magus and engineer and mara?

And if we are bringing staggers into this again it favors heavily engineer/magus with both the longest AoE staggers and the only anti stagger abilities in the game.


Also as far as counterplay to staggers goes, you have healer morales such as zealot m2, shaman m4, any tank m3/m4, DPS defensive M1... and guess what? Detaunt

The longest duration AoE KD is 3 seconds, every other single target kd is also 3 or 2 seconds? And BG has their 5 sec KD. Also regarding KD's on tanks, tanks have the highest amounts of avoidance in the game most times it's gonna be a gamble unless you have setup specifically to reduce parry/block then drop these abilities. You can try and get at the back as you should but muh latency and I think any decent tank would be on guard against letting classes with KD's at their backs.


I'm just trying to defend this idea as best I can hopefully it doesn't get me into too much **** :^)

[tomato]

Quality discussion going on here. Especially the guard part.

[Jaycub]

Quality discussion going on here. Especially the guard part.

I guess shitposting isn't technically playing the game?

[tomato]

Nope, can still amuse myself about "make guard 75/25" shitposts.

[Vigfuss]

Bloodi comin through with a beast idea.

I like the idea of guard being disabled when the tank is stunned! Now THAT is counter play.

That is a good idea, but I would suggest it doesn't work for staggers otherwise that's potentially 5-7seconds out of a fight/without guard = very fast TTK.

It's a good idea, but it would be a massive game changer, and i think it might mean reworking more things than it's worth. Ranged KD would become overpowered, and almost every KD in the game would have to be looked at for balance afterwards.

[Jaycub]

Nope, can still amuse myself about "make guard 75/25" shitposts.

Except no one asked for that? The current discussion is about adding counterplay or whether or not that is needed.

[bloodi]

I can understand issues with the change promoting bomb groups, as anyone who gets rifted its going to eat a kd and guards are going to get negated. I can also see it benefitting destro bomb groups, who are imo weaker atm, more than order ones because they have more access to aoe kds.

But ranged kds? Did you ever try to attack a tank as ranged? As BW you have to bypass 2 skills, ignite to active the possibility of using the RKD and then the RKD itself, which would go in CD if it didnt work. Have you ever tried to attack a SnB tank as ranged? Reliably is the last thing it is. It would be a waste of time 80% of the time, so tell me how is that op.