Reintroductions and reflections.

[Dabbart]

^^^ How much of this thread has been a complaint about Dev's ignoring the playerbase though? Your suggestion doesn't "fix" anything. Hell in your own post you talk about how you suggested something 2 years ago, but they didn't listen to you. That they should ignore people...

I agree though that not everyone should be given a Face position...

[dur3al]

^^^ How much of this thread has been a complaint about Dev's ignoring the playerbase though? Your suggestion doesn't "fix" anything. Hell in your own post you talk about how you suggested something 2 years ago, but they didn't listen to you. That they should ignore people...

I agree though that not everyone should be given a Face position...

Not much. I don't think most people cared to much for just being ignored (except Penril because in essence he would be wasting his time back in the balance forums, as he explained). Most of this thread has been a complaint about being ignored & treated like **** when trying to discuss it or voicing your concern.

The issue is not the ignoring part, but why its being ignored. Essentially they should ignore suggestions that are out of reality and unfounded by logic. Because if there is is one thing that anyone can relatively understand from both sides of the spectrum (staff - player) is logic, hence base your arguments in them and you've a debate you can proper listen to. But currently a lot is being dismissed because they dislike the person making the arguments, making themselves somewhat needing to concede to someone they dislike, making they look inferior or some other sentimental stuff in the eyes of the rest - all the while flying their warnings and bans and whatnot.

[Yaliskah]

The issue is not the ignoring part, but why its being ignored.

I can list some reasons (which only binds me) :

- Lack of time : To answer about some posts (i promised answering an ORvR post a month ago, and just answered last week). We all have a RL and when 1000 ppl asking for explanations or discuss about things, generally 1-3 ppl in the team are able to answer or participate the discussion.

- Lack of resources : Tons of suggestions are awesome ofc. Some just ask a huge amount of work (and we have not the capacity to do it, or we are too focused on something else) none except those who have hands in code can consider, or we are just unable at this step of the project to give a try to some suggestions, because our abilities are limited and we have no idea how to do this or that. According this, on a dedicated subject, i'm not sure entering in some technical discussion about our client-server knowledge could help a lot.

- Lack of understanding (probably just my case) : You noticed my Frenglish is...meh. Sometime i just have no idea what you are talking about. So answering...

I'm sorry if some persons thinks we are in our ivory towerand ignoring them. Thats not the case. Point is the task is gigantic, fire is everywhere, and our action range is limited.

Time and patience vs Frustration (and this is true whatever you are, inside or outside the team).

[Danielle]

A player base is not going to stick around if they feel suffocated or like they have to constantly walk on egg shells, which is EXACTLY what the environment here became. Toxic beyond belief and it was not the fault of the player base.

Excuse me. Have previously admitted many things with my poor frenglish. Reading this sentence hurts me a bit.

To dance a Tango, we must be 2. I'm never involved with bans or warnings -except once- (Hi Hao, come see me on discord say hello when you want), but i assume there is always a reason. And in the worst case, the faults are shared.

Yes, your development team has done great things. It has pretty much restored Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, from scratch. You as a collective have improved on class balance and RvR mechanics. You revamped lairs, fixed pqs and made new beastlord content. You have done a great job. As Ade mentioned Torque who is often blamed for his forum and admin behaviour, has often been the source of excellent changes in the game.

I will not go on here to personally criticize staff members, instead I am going to tell you a story from my life, and you can decide what you think about it and how it reflects on the project. I like playing RoR occasionally, as such I brought many a friend to play the game with me. During the last 2 years I would give them this advice:

"If you don't want to get into trouble, don't post on the forum at all. The best thing to do is to stay logged out of your account so you can't post and just read the patch notes and informative threads. By posting you risk getting into an argument and an unnecessary ban."

"If a GM speaks to you in the game treat them like a U.S. police officer who stopped you on the road and is aiming a gun at you. Don't make any rash moves, choose your words with extreme care and do exactly what they tell you to do, or handle the risk of being shot" - a metaphore for being muted, banned or permabanned.

Now the U.S. police are a good enforcer of law. However they don't need to have a productive relationship with U.S. citizens outside of law enforcement. As development team you do need to have a productive with the community or player feedback on content and balance will be worthless, because by moderating dissent and encouraging players to do self-censorship for their own good, all the feedback you are likely to get back will be sycophantic or grammatically and logically so broken, that the development team will not be able to interpret it as an insult. Of course there will be a good amount of cognitive dissonance going around and some members of the community will start to think their self-censorship/sycophancy actually reflects objective reality. I suggest that if it is your goal to have a productive relationship with the community, and you want a higher effort from player coming into balance discussions, bug reports and feedback in general, then you should not silence dissenters and have moderators who look for every opportunity to give out sanctions to posters they disagree with.

The world isn't black and white in terms of morality, the volunteers working on this project are certainly on the good, white side of things in general, putting their effort and work into a game others can play for no reimbursement, but they certainly are no angels either, and sometimes they do overreach and do bad things.

[Prague]

What about folding the extremely underused 'Bans' subforum in with the 'Ban Appeals' subforum and then using the space left over to create a 'sin bin' subforum to restrict punished players to in terms of posting (that also allows for sending pm's to other players) for the purpose of keeping open a public line of communication via the forum?

It would certainly cut down a lot of pointless fuss off of the forum in terms of trying to communicate with the staff and so long as said restricted players could view the rest of the forum then there would be nothing else left to make any situation worse.


I have seen it work very well in other places, i dunno, just an idea... TO THE MOON!!!

[Prague]

Here's an idea! solve ambiguous punishment issues with duels! best of three and if you lose your char gets wiped!

I think this post needs a Tyrion Lannister "i demand a trial by combat!" meme graphic.

[mika9713]

Hello and welcome back
I join for the WL it is more than time to do something, is it normal that a WL can tank much more than a tank and do as much deguat? I play fury, I spend a lot of time trying to mix stuff, ect to try at least to finish a wl is impossible, it spoils the pleasure of playing and cut any desire, a WL can kill 3- 4 people in a row and he leaves barely alive, there is a big problem with the class.

[Ridduk]

Hello and welcome back
I join for the WL it is more than time to do something, is it normal that a WL can tank much more than a tank and do as much deguat? I play fury, I spend a lot of time trying to mix stuff, ect to try at least to finish a wl is impossible, it spoils the pleasure of playing and cut any desire, a WL can kill 3- 4 people in a row and he leaves barely alive, there is a big problem with the class.

[Sophia]

"If a GM speaks to you in the game treat them like a U.S. police officer who stopped you on the road and is aiming a gun at you. Don't make any rash moves, choose your words with extreme care and do exactly what they tell you to do, or handle the risk of being shot" - a metaphore for being muted, banned or permabanned.

U.S police officers in U.S is admissible by the citizens in price of all the public services by the goverment but U.S police officers in Somalia gonna have hard time dealing with citizens, cause you know, limited public service, limited patience. This is what's happening in RoR atm. RoR is a ALPHA product, aka Somalia, everything should fit that ALPHA concept. When opposite happens, someone explodes.

You can ask or tell people why keep bothering with Somalia while you can live in another country, you are definetly right. I think people should simply leave instead of criticizing/whining/trolling to get attention. It's pointless until Somalia evolves into something liveable, somehow, someday.


What wouldn't i do if i'm in charge of Somalia;

1- Wouldn't bother with CLASS BALANCE until i'm sure ALL abilities/tactics/morales working properly. [Checked bugtracker, 200+ ability related issue still open]

2- Wouldn't change RVR until i'm sure ALL RVR CONTENT working as intended XXXX version of Age of Reckoning.

3- Wouldn't make TESTERS lifes harder. Seriously, grinding in alpha state game is horrific idea. Testers should have access of everything, more access ---> more feedback ---> more healthy server.

4- Wouldn't change anything without public announcement.

5- Wouldn't bother discussing with community except informing them until game is ready for discussed.

6- Wouldn't let my team play the game. We all know what's happening when team members play the game. [hint: drama]

7- Wouldn't touch the forums unless it becomes super racist, gore ect. [community is a pressure cooker, if you dont let them leak the gas [salt] slowly, it will explode cause of pressure. it's what's happening on forums.]


What would i do after being sure WAR is fully resurrected;

1- I would start defining CLASS BALANCE. Not with the "non-sense" [tesq and dabbart, i'm looking at you] , with actual numbers, proofs, videos ect.

2- I would focus the classes who's underperforming. [actually, you guys did a good job with engi-magus-shaman-am ]

3- I would take feedback from the players whos proven themselves in real action, not on forums.

4- I would focus ENDGAME CONTENT to get rid of the reason who killed WAR:AOR. [thats the most important part tbh]

5- I would make the relationship between staff and players super transparent.

6- I would make testing phases simple, quick, open. [ that ab ex aoe change test phase, for example is a bad example ]

to sum up, life ain't easy in Somalia.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

nice documentary btw.

[Telen]

Reductio ad absurdum
Somalia is corrupt so RoR should be balanced to 1.4.8