[Magus] Why so weak?

[Daknallbomb]

we play dok zea chosen mara (sh or BO) magus and we got 100% win atm ;D
but there are much better picks than magus there , but it still can work ,
so its rly not easy to blanace magus . just a bit to much and hes imba like **** ;D

magus and engi is in my eyes in 1on1 not beatable if u know how (and use 1on1 stuff and skills)
but many fakts make the magus bad instead he is .
The most magus players and rly the most do nothing exept create fluff dmg .
than the rest of magus 50% are rift bots
than from that rest mayb 10% are good with magus .

if u give magus dmg like a sorc/bw hes imba
if u give him more surviveabylity hes not killable at rift bot
if u give him much more cc hes imba

so i think mobility , and effektiv dots are the right changes

[thullonse]

we play dok zea chosen mara (sh or BO) magus and we got 100% win atm ;D
but there are much better picks than magus there , but it still can work ,
so its rly not easy to blanace magus . just a bit to much and hes imba like **** ;D

magus and engi is in my eyes in 1on1 not beatable if u know how (and use 1on1 stuff and skills)
but many fakts make the magus bad instead he is .
The most magus players and rly the most do nothing exept create fluff dmg .
than the rest of magus 50% are rift bots
than from that rest mayb 10% are good with magus .

if u give magus dmg like a sorc/bw hes imba
if u give him more surviveabylity hes not killable at rift bot
if u give him much more cc hes imba

so i think mobility , and effektiv dots are the right changes

funfact: back in beta the devs intended magus to be able to cast while moving since they hover on a skateboard

[Daknallbomb]

Lol that rly would Look funny

[Telen]

Really those scoreboards dont tell you much. Ive had 17 dbs on my AM and 180k dmg and they have even less burst. Ive also had scs where Ive done that much dmg and 0 dbs. Ive seen you do that much dmg and 0 dbs. If you cant burst when the other side have healers that cleanse and dont just spam gheal then you become a real weak link.

Dots need a rethink in general so they are effective in group but arent just put on detaunt and laugh for 1v1

[peterthepan3]

atm i run http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mag ... 6:;0:0:0:0:

U dont have hard burst but u got a rly nice spammable st dmg , and rend wind never is a non crit cause it hits three times ;D my rend winds (if all three crits ) got atm 33 % bonus crit are about 1k dmg + pet dmg and mayb mist or some dots , i spam a few rend winds on target like 3-5 times than soi +ifoc

with that u have better mobility but not that burst but it still can do with pet and dot and mist (if they are dumb enough to stay in ;D nearly 2k dps on a single target and u can hold it up about 10 seconds permanently . if the target is not overhealed its dead , or if some other focus same target its dead . i love to play like that cause dat boc soi vl rotation is sooooo slow ;D and not my style .
i know many maga players will say no thats not good but i think my playstyle rox i get flamed bye order like cheater or something , i get many group invites from destru (hey common play with us as dd ) think thats the best compliment i can get as a magus ;D )

and its nice 4 killin tanks or amssive distrupt healers . just love it .

and if u see here it works .
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242766.jpg

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242872.jpg

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242927.jpg

but there i used ap taktik instead rend winds taktik but now i got enough ap+ to use rend winds taktik

Spamming rend winds won't cut it against a good group. Also - noone is saying that the Magus can not do damage, but that the damage is easy to ignore. Scenarios are not a good reflection of a class's worth, and it still irks me that people use scen screenshots as some sort of evidence to the contrary.

Most of your scenario screenshots consist of you dealing big damage with mehish KBs, which is normal for a mist build. The sorc and squig in http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242766.jpg had 100k less damage yet the same/more KBs, which is to expected by classes that can burst down properly. I have a few screenies of me playing Havoc magus, with 90k-ish damage and 13+ KBs on some occasions. It's easy to get good results against unorganised order groups in scenarios

If you bring your magus group against a good order group you won't be able tp get them down - and that is the problem. Sorcerer doesn't fit in 'the ideal' 6man either, but a good sorcerer can still apply pressure and force the healers to detaunt/cleanse/healspam and can assist well off a SH/marauder, whereas a magus can literally be detaunted and /lol'd.

Without an incoming heal debuff, or ondemand burst like a sorc to pressure healers, the Magus is not a very good pressure RDPS.

I agree that DoTs need to be reworked to be made more effective. Mobility? Perhaps, but the class is the stationary DPS remember!111oneone

@Renork
You make good points. The sorcerer should deal the highest damage given their mechanic (a mechanic which doesn't seem to matter much in a good group, mind you ). But there needs to be something given so that the Magus can perform just as well as a main DPS (this doesn't equate to DPS per se, but for instance the squig herder brings fast and accessible damage along with a pet that can pressure well, and some mean debuffs, which would warrant taking them)

[Tesq]

hm okay but i play mid path and just use 1-2 dots and one of tham are a debuff not a dmg dot

pandemonium, glean magic, seed of chaos are 3 if you go mid.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

atm i run http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mag ... 6:;0:0:0:0:

U dont have hard burst but u got a rly nice spammable st dmg , and rend wind never is a non crit cause it hits three times ;D my rend winds (if all three crits ) got atm 33 % bonus crit are about 1k dmg + pet dmg and mayb mist or some dots , i spam a few rend winds on target like 3-5 times than soi +ifoc

with that u have better mobility but not that burst but it still can do with pet and dot and mist (if they are dumb enough to stay in ;D nearly 2k dps on a single target and u can hold it up about 10 seconds permanently . if the target is not overhealed its dead , or if some other focus same target its dead . i love to play like that cause dat boc soi vl rotation is sooooo slow ;D and not my style .
i know many maga players will say no thats not good but i think my playstyle rox i get flamed bye order like cheater or something , i get many group invites from destru (hey common play with us as dd ) think thats the best compliment i can get as a magus ;D )





and its nice 4 killin tanks or amssive distrupt healers . just love it .

and if u see here it works .
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242766.jpg

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242872.jpg

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?fi ... 242927.jpg

but there i used ap taktik instead rend winds taktik but now i got enough ap+ to use rend winds taktik

Spamming rend winds won't cut it against a good group.

Most of your scenario screenshots consist of you dealing big damage with mehish KBs, which is normal for a mist build. I have a few screenies of me playing Havoc magus, with 90k-ish damage and 11+ KBs on some occasions. It's easy to get good results against unorganised order groups in scenarios

If you bring your magus group against a good order group you won't be ab;e tp get them down - and that is the problem.

Without an incoming heal debuff, or ondemand burst like a sorc to pressure healers, the Magus is not a very good pressure RDPS.

@Renork
You make good points. The sorcerer should deal the highest damage given their mechanic (a mechanic which doesn't seem to matter much in a good group, mind you ). But there needs to be something given so that the Magus can perform just as well as a main DPS (this doesn't equate to DPS per se, but for instance the squig herder brings fast and accessible damage along with a pet that can pressure well, and some mean debuffs, which would warrant taking them)

that's why magus should get a cross mirror KD and heal debuff from BW

[peterthepan3]

hm okay but i play mid path and just use 1-2 dots and one of tham are a debuff not a dmg dot

pandemonium, glean magic, seed of chaos are 3 if you go mid.

Which is why we can ascertain that 90% of Daknall's damage is mist. If you are using just glean magic and panda against a good healer and relying on rend winds to kill them, then you will get bad results

Heal debuff would be a bandaid, and it is something provided by the squig, marauder, choppa, witch elf, and dps dok already. Would be nice to have something different from the mold: for example, I remember the old Perils of the Warp was a sort of anti-caster barb that was nice on paper but crap in practice.

[Nidwin]

You always have to have stronger and weaker classes, you just have to make sure the weaker classes look and have something awesome making them worth playing.

[Daknallbomb]

hmm okay today i will make some scs without using mist . u will see its not much diffrent
and i dont use seed cause its just fluff dmg nothing else .