Morals (IV) suggestion

[roadkillrobin]

Where for every group member of the same race, you gain 5% more morale gain would be achieved for a total of 25-30% additional morale gain over mixed compositions.

There was no "hard" racial restrictions on these example dwarf could get 5% for each human in group with Empire Alligence tactic.

Yeah but you would loose 5% Morale gain, I can't remember if these tactics used 1 or 2 slots but anyway you turn it you get moast benefits from em by being a 100% Racial group as you would need to spend more Renown points to get another Racial Bonus Morale pump tactic (If you even could slot 2?)

[Dabbart]

One would imagine the Morale tactics where removed for a reason No? I remember the original RR system, and I personally hated it. Why do I have to burn 10 points on crap? Why do I have to burn a full 20 to unlock something else? The Mastery system works on a straight ladder. I have never liked unlock systems that just make you pick X numbers of crap(IE gw2), if you have to work up the ladder to unlock the next ability in the Tree that is one thing. But pick spent X on crap has always seemed lazy to me. But just my Opinion...

For me, M4 is a coordinated effort on a largish scale fight. One where you have time to build it up. M2 can be gained every 60s on smallish Morale gear, and m3 is pretty quick too. My WP can dump the 3k absorp seconds before it is available(so every 35-40 sec) I believe he has something like +10 morale per second? I could be wrong, but it feels like Morale gains are way faster on RoR. This could just be me not being entirely wasted however... And I wont even start on Z with Morale tactic... I repeatedly had M4 unlocked while it was still on CD...

And for the Love of all that is (un)Holy, Morale. With an E. Your personal Morals are just that. Personal. Stop trying to force your Morals upon the rest of humanity! Buggers...

[Valfaros]

One would imagine the Morale tactics where removed for a reason No? I remember the original RR system, and I personally hated it. Why do I have to burn 10 points on crap? Why do I have to burn a full 20 to unlock something else? The Mastery system works on a straight ladder. I have never liked unlock systems that just make you pick X numbers of crap(IE gw2), if you have to work up the ladder to unlock the next ability in the Tree that is one thing. But pick spent X on crap has always seemed lazy to me. But just my Opinion...

For me, M4 is a coordinated effort on a largish scale fight. One where you have time to build it up. M2 can be gained every 60s on smallish Morale gear, and m3 is pretty quick too. My WP can dump the 3k absorp seconds before it is available(so every 35-40 sec) I believe he has something like +10 morale per second? I could be wrong, but it feels like Morale gains are way faster on RoR. This could just be me not being entirely wasted however... And I wont even start on Z with Morale tactic... I repeatedly had M4 unlocked while it was still on CD...

And for the Love of all that is (un)Holy, Morale. With an E. Your personal Morals are just that. Personal. Stop trying to force your Morals upon the rest of humanity! Buggers...

Naw you are pretty wrong with your feeling about the moral gain.
"Morale gain feels quicker in RoR"
No it's not if you solo it's basically just as quick as in AoR but if you run in full groups is way slower then on live due to the missing implementation of morale gain in groups.

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/7084 Being also mentioned in the thread for the bug that you don't lose your moral upon death.

You mention morale tactic on zealot yes as several times written if you have a moral tactic is is quick as hell and if you don't have one you never get to M4 (M3 feels like ages compared to live also) which is on my opinion just a bad joke. For example you actually go for M4 in your skill tree waist all these points and then "Hmpf looks like my class doesn't have a morale tactic okay so I can't use it then nice...."

[Dabbart]

Yea, I have noticed that type of error in a few things since sobriety... Thanks for the Link!

[footpatrol2]

I can't recall if the racial renown boost tactic was a 2 slot or a 1 slot. At the time the 5% additional renown gain tactic was popular. There were many other renown tactics based on racial opposition such as if you kill a High elf you gain health or action points or drain morale.

The tactics that Bozzax listed is what started me on racial groups.

Spoiler:

Regarding morale gain being higher in party.

There was 6 renown tactics that increased morale gain in party in the old renown mastery system (pre 1.4).
(You could slot 2/3 as order or destruction)

Dwarves Camaraderie - You receive an additional 5% morale gain for every Dwarf in your group.
Empire Alligence - You receive an additional 5% morale gain for every Empire in your group.
High Elf Lineage- You receive an additional 5% morale gain for every High Elf in your group.
Chaotic Alligence - You receive an additional 5% morale gain for every Chaos in your group.
Dark Elf Lineage- You receive an additional 5% morale gain for every Dark Elf in your group.
Orcish Camaraderie - You receive an additional 5% morale gain for every Greenskin in your group.

The Team and I used those tactics in the racial dwarf groups we used to run. We also used the racial tactics in the High elf groups we ran.

Dwarf defensive morale cycle pre 1.4 changes

Spoiler:

Here is the dwarf defensive morale cycle we used to run. This is just one composition. There is many to still explore. Composition was 2 RP 1 Engie 1 slayer 2 IB's. Times 2 for the 12 man.
Mountain spirit 30 sec. Cycled.
We'd use Armor plating as a clutch. If we were taking too much damage we would pop this.
Gromril Plating 20 sec MASSIVE group absorb cycled. We were crazy tough.

Dwarf Morale bomb

Spoiler:

Rune of Skewering 2400 damage to your front for 40 ft. x2 in a 12 man
Axe slam 2400 65 ft in front
Doomseeker 1800 x 2 30ft with knockdown.
Total bomb 10800. Max health was roughly 10k. Rift, Bomb, instant death. You can squeeze in more bomb but at the cost of defensive cycles.

Notice that there are trade-offs. I have to give up my defensive morale cycle to commit to the bomb... this is done by design. Classes that had really good early morales were generally part of the racial bomb component. This is why there is a disparity. They had to make tough choices.

When they got rid of the racial renown tactic and the defensive morale cycle nerf was implemented that's when mythic decided to move away from racial groups because the community didn't get it or didn't think it was as good as mixed. What stopped the community from thinking about racial groups? inter class stacking of buffs... Again this game was designed to play similar to the tabletop wargame of warhammer fantasy battles.

[Bozzax]

You do realise 25% more morale is about same as a green +2 ring?

[roadkillrobin]

Its 30% But we don't really know the Morale rate from live so hard to compare. But yeah currenty it would be 13 Morale instead of 10. Wich is a pretty decent increase.
I do think Morale Gain was around 15 with full group on live. I think we should test it on RoR

[Lileldys]

It was 10morale/second on live while solo. This is what was worked out by testing varying tactics used, and this is what is used here.

The difference is is that on live being in a full group gave you 36 morale a second(From videos we managed to find). Allowing for morale 1 to be up in ~10s, m2 in ~20s, m3 in ~50s, and m4 in ~100s

With 0 tools to build morale, it takes 6minutes right now to build m4, and we know their effects aren't worth waiting this long. Chosen/BO have a way to build a ton of morale, so can cycle nearly every minute.

m4s being mostly irrelevant doesn't help too. My WH has a 1.2k damage morale on m2 which i can use every 60seconds. Why wait for 5-6mins to get m4 for a 25% damage increase, or even a 1.6k specced morale with a generally niche effect on top.

[footpatrol2]

I don't know exactly how the renown tactic worked. Did it only increase your base morale gain? or did it also increase your base plus morale gain from gear?

Example.
If you have +6 morale gain per sec through gear, for a total of 16 morale per sec. 30% of 16 is roughly 4 morale per sec. That totals out to 20 renown gain per sec instead of your base 10. Any morale gain gear would be 30% more effective.

I just remember when running those racial groups you could feel the affect and the morale gain was faster then in mixed.

So if on live your gaining morale at 36 per sec with the racial morale tactics your gaining a additional 10.8 morale per sec for roughly 46 morale per sec. Morale 1 would be gained at 7.8 secs. Morale 2 at 15 sec's. Morale 3 at 39 sec's morale 4 at 78 sec's. So you could gain morale 4 at a little over 1 minute of fighting, that's without additional morale gain items.

@lileldys
Just to correct you Divine Blast is 2400 damage. excommunicate is 1800 damage. Expurgation is 2400 damage. When you spec into the tree the morale 4's get stronger just like how your abilities in that spec line also get stronger as you spec into them.

Individually the non tank morale 4's suck. But in a organized group that is coordinated they can be devastating. Take 3 classes that have the 2400 usually AE instant damage. Do a Coordinated push with those 3 classes all over the same area, that's 7200 damage. Whats roughly health of your characters right now? 7k ish? That's basically instant death to any non tank class. This isn't even tied to your AP damage you can do. If your not organized and coordinated you basically can't use them.

I've done organized spec specific morale 4 pushes before vs premades/randoms. When you can pull it off (which it is hard to do...) you feel like you beat the game and its kinda awe inspiring. The animations look over the top too.

[roadkillrobin]

It was 10morale/second on live while solo. This is what was worked out by testing varying tactics used, and this is what is used here.

The difference is is that on live being in a full group gave you 36 morale a second(From videos we managed to find). Allowing for morale 1 to be up in ~10s, m2 in ~20s, m3 in ~50s, and m4 in ~100s

With 0 tools to build morale, it takes 6minutes right now to build m4, and we know their effects aren't worth waiting this long. Chosen/BO have a way to build a ton of morale, so can cycle nearly every minute.

m4s being mostly irrelevant doesn't help too. My WH has a 1.2k damage morale on m2 which i can use every 60seconds. Why wait for 5-6mins to get m4 for a 25% damage increase, or even a 1.6k specced morale with a generally niche effect on top.

Wow thats a massive amount of Morales not ticking in right now. Add the racial Bonus RVR tactics on top of that. And you would have gained almoast 5 times the Morale then on RoR.