TheoryCraft [Tanks Balance]

[Tesq]

Chosen:
1) M4 Sprout Carapace should be lowered to either 15 or 10 seconds. Literally every other Tank M4 with buffs lasts only 10 seconds! Problem here is the pretty op morale-buff-tactic combined with this M4. Since i think the tactic is something special and good by itself, the Morale that profits heavily from it should be nerfed though.
2) Suppression perhaps should be changed to work similar like the Kotbs block increase. So a 10 seconds cd for 10 sec 10% block, or 15% parry.

75% + base armor/resistence is a lot better than shrout carapace, you dont need a 30-60 sec of slighter buff while you could have a 10sec ( or 20 sec with 2chosen/BO with tactic) life saver of -75% damage.

Resistence have a cap of 40%, reduces more damage from that 40% is truly hard, also even armor have a cap and a over cap, reduces more damage than 75% not possible.

ADD that Armor/resistence do not mitigate morals, core M4 do that. So the combination of armor/resistence + -75% of damage is better than shrout carapce. You need to touch destinated to victory moral not a m4 on the mid path. That moral is a waste of points when the problem in war are not damage overtime but BURST , you need burst to kill. That moral should be buff/fix to have some utility as lot of the path m4 around, not nerfed.


Dont mess with suppression... SM/chosen are tank bases in stack all def not just block, dont make chosen a surrogat of other tanks when there are pattern mirros to respect and that are perfectly in line.

Also why you would just give a free buff to chosen making him better at guard ppl?...you know you can only block magic and ranged attack and not dodge/dirupt theme with guard. Being a parry class make better in guard other tanks. Give to chosen a block meccanic would just make chosen gain 1 tactic more and 20-30 renow point more........also being a better guard ...........................I only see benefiths for chosen and 0 good change for the game with this block talk. It's just what every shield chosen would like to have. Also if there are a wrong mirror is not on chosen. You spoke of change parry in block makign similar to kobs and that alredy a bad exmple by is own. It's the kobs that should have a better mirror wit BG in the first place, he should never had a block and parry buff but absorb skill a damage reduction/crit reduction (as he have).

SM/CH
KOBS/BG

Those should be the mainly def/offensive pattern mirror while the meccanic should be mirrored in auras.

Tactics should be crossed by IB for chosen and BO for kobs and if you look at chosen this is what it's like and it should be.

If you look at kobs you just see NONESENSE with out of nowhere skill that makes truly hard balance tanks. Because BG and KOBS where introduced later and from a different dev team. That **** all the mirror pattern.

I was just talking about Auras and i personally would also like to see a Poll about having all 5point Auras from Kotbs/Chosen removed and replaced with skills associated to the former effect of the Spell.
For example the AP-Auras should become a 10 second buff, that gives all groupmembers in 100feet a 5ap/sec buff.
Or the setback Aura should give your target a 10sec debuff for 25% increased setback chance, while reducing it for your secondary target. Also the healdebuff ability should then look like the tactic-slotted BG/Ib healdebuff. It would just be a 25% debuff, instead of a 50% one that the other 2 Tanks have, but it would not require a tactic.
This would move Kotbs/Chosens from their Aura-Bot position, to a bit more lively skill oriented, class while still maintaining the 'flair' of the Classes.[/i]

I dont understand the point so you want chosen/kobs have 1 tactic that give additional effect for each aura?
So you basicaly mean make chosen like what kobs need to be nerf?
(edit: if you are suggest to make tactic give aura effect this will lead to other type of problems.)

Indeed Power from the gods benefith only chosen and it does make him able to use hold the line longer and use flee as a charge. (not so hope as you may think ). As his dps is not so high like other tank and burst is better than damage over time due to spam.

You are just suggest to nerf or buff chosen dependently to what that tactic would be while leave unscattered KOBS and... his regen aura regen even AP...... also he regen ap from armor buff as well........

Not that i am against a review of ap aura. Bur with sov i do not see so much problem with the ap need. Should be first test and then think about it.

But if power from the god version need to be removed it's only his counterpart from kobs and not from chosen. He alredy have from regen aura and armor buff what that tactic does plus he still have the original chosen tactic.
This make his ap x sec 20+ and even more with ap aura.
With out count that it's a tactic, it take a empty slot and kobs/chosen are more dependat from tactic than other classes (that's why kobs do not slot it when play in wb ).

You take chosen in group for the group utility not for the single buff and hold the line last longer is not one theme, i tough the point of "fix" classes was give better chance to bring ppl in party not make em more powerfull or less powerfull by their own.

ANY single class utility nerf have no sense when the problem are GROUP utility buff.

super punt
destinated to victory
Resistence aura
ap aura
Wounds debuff (yea none still have talk about that and this make me think......)

This is why you take a chosen instead a BO, that's have nothing do to with chosen personal skill/rotation.
That suppression + mixed defense+ power from the gods+ hold the line are part of.

Now correct me where i am wrong. Cos even BO have a personal regen ap and it do not seems it concern you left it unscattered after "fix" the war bellow. That would just make it another destinated to victory. So what's the point again?
in those fix if they make other classes like those that have been nerfed? That tactic make actually do chosen something instead being a no brain aura buffer. It do not make better any of his group utility.

[Luth]

Why? Its obvious also that is the easiest mechanic of the game.

Fixed it.

[Tesq]

incoming attack including block/parry/disrupt/evade (one of armor, elem, spirit, corp) Buff 100feet debuff 30feet

With inc attack you need to take in account even guard damage. Or they will just ingore you, that's why 2 ppl per party can proc the tactic, they cannot basicaly ingore 2/4 ppl that do the party damage

[noisestorm]

cant be arsed reading/answering your post tesq sry man

as long as everyone else understood what i meant its fine lol

[Tesq]

As long ppl understand my counter -reason what i mean it's fine too.
never what a reply in first place.

[Sulorie]

I'm just gonna add this to my signature.

Increase the text size or people might not notice it.
Or use rainbow colors.

[Ototo]

I feel like I'm saying this over and over again, but:

These threads are theorycrafting and do not imply in any way that we're going to change anything before T4.

I'm just gonna add this to my signature.

LOL

[TenTonHammer]

dont forget the part about everything you say being your opinion

[noisestorm]

As long ppl understand my counter -reason what i mean it's fine too.
never what a reply in first place.

the problem is you seem to talk about stuff completely unrelated to my post. if you obviously do not even slightly understand what i was writing, then simply do not answer

i'll just start ignoring your posts from now on, since they are not only gramatically, but also in terms of your thought process, waaaay to strange/hard to follow. additionally YOUR sense of whats good and what not is in my opinion completely retarded. alone that you do not see any benefit behind the overcapping of your resists/armor for 30 second (with just another whooping 30 seconds downtime WTF) shows me that you have no clue. sure the 75% dmg reduction is nice (and No @your statement: afaik -> morale damage = true damage), but those are just 10 seconds instead of 30 seconds.
But lemme explain why overcapping makes sense (random numbers, but pretty close): We have 75% (softcap) at like 6k Armor. Now we have someone debuffing us for 1600 armor => we go down to ~40% Reduction for Armor here => 35% More damage received.
On the other hand, if we have 6k Armor + ~800 from a M4 and then get debuffed with 1600 again we will just go down to like ~65% armor -> 10% more damage. And since fights tend to take multiple minutes and not just a handful of seconds id ALWAYS prefer a 30second buff over a stronger 10 second one. But whatever.. i feel like wasting ressources when i try to read and answer to your posts. Like stated above - do not even try to respond to me personally since i simply dont care anymore about your posts.

BTT: There could and also should be made tons of minor changes all along. the stuff that i suggested was just something thats not too gamebreaking at all, but would still bring an increase in terms of healthiness in the tank-archetype, since obviously some things are more op than others. be it in durations or effects. The problem here comes through the buffs and debuffs offered through other archetypes (mdps/rdps). Like i shortly mentioned the WE m3. Sure kotbs has a nice crit buff, with pretty much perma uptime, but if you consider the IMMENSE burst a group gets offered through the M3 of a WE it someone evens out. Same surely applies for other examples as well, but thats another story.
Like Tenton (i believe he was it?) stated: Better some minor adjustments now in the early stage of the game, than having some big ass change later in t4, where everyone gonna rant about everything. People have to deal with the fact that the balance of War was mostly Sh*t and needs to be overhauled. And i just say you better now than later, so people can actually see how it plays out and tweak and tune the numbers over the way up to t4.

We also had some talk about SM AP drain in another topic, which i didnt mention in my first post, but thats just another example of a skill that can easily be tweaked without creating much of an inbalance in regard of other tanks.
What i personally would be interrested to see is a list of skills what you guys actually find OP or UP. And i mean no walls of text, but simply something like:
"Chosen - Quake: 3 seconds are imo too short!"

[Bozzax]

incoming attack including block/parry/disrupt/evade (one of armor, elem, spirit, corp) Buff 100feet debuff 30feet

With inc attack you need to take in account even guard damage. Or they will just ingore you, that's why 2 ppl per party can proc the tactic, they cannot basicaly ingore 2/4 ppl that do the party damage

EDIT: Trigger on incoming damage including guard damage would be the simplest solution