Changelog 07/09 (Keeps / BOs)

[Penril]

So what is is that you want, bearing in mind that it has to stop keep trading?

I would rather engage with RvR as little as possible, because the entire design is fundamentally flawed.

Don't take this the wrong way Aza. We are all grateful for the devs hard work. However, as an "alpha", i (and many others) feel obligued to point out when something is not working.

Now, keep trading is bad and we all know that. The problem is that once a realm owns all the BO's and keeps there is nothing left for them to do in RvR until the other realm retakes some points. Mythic actually fixed (!!!!!) this by making zones reset after a couple minutes once they got locked (T1-T3). It worked like this:

- Both realms had a keep.
- People had to rank up the zone to level 4 so they could use a ram (only way to destroy keep doors).
- Destro takes enemy keep. Now both keeps in the zone are red.
- 5 (10?) minutes later, keeps reset and go back to their respective realms.

Ranking a zone to rank 4 took a while, and taking the enemy keep gave a lot of xp/renown/inf. So people actually attacked AND defended. Also, any kills near a BO/Keep gave you extra inf/renow.

My suggestion? If a realm owns both keeps in a zone, have them reset after 5/10 minutes. This will end keep trading. Also, keep the increased xp/renown near the BO's (that was a good change). Finally, make keep door attackable ONLY if your realm owns at least 2 BO's (or maybe make the enemy keep lord spawn ONLY if your side owns at least 2 BOs). This will spread the zerg a little (they will have to protect BO's). Reduce the BO lockout timer (i think it was 5 minutes in 1.4.8). Reduce xp/renown gained from locking a BO to avoid BO trading (but keep the killing bonus near them).

These are just friendly suggestions as an alpha tester/gamer/whatever.

[Soulcheg]

Zone lock.

[Penril]

Zone lock.

That could help too. Once a realm takes both keeps in Ostland, move the fight to Dorf. Ostland remains locked until one side takes both keeps in Dorf.

[OldPlayer]

So what is is that you want, bearing in mind that it has to stop keep trading?

I would rather engage with RvR as little as possible, because the entire design is fundamentally flawed.

Sometimes the only solution is not to get into the situation you are asking a solution for. - badly paraphrasing Lewis Caroll

My question is: why do we need solution to keep trading? Why not spend time on solving more important problems?
I apologize to all those twenty, maybe even forty people who do not like keep trading and are active on forums for having different opinion than they do and would like to mention that my characters are fully levelled/equipped and cannot gain anything in keep trading.

1) I still do not know what is developers global aim - to make a perfect copy of Warhammer Online or to make their own tweaked copy where, wild example, Dwarfs ride pigs or Swordmasters are more useful than Knights of the Blazing Sun or Orcs must attack each other if being not in combat for 10 minutes. But if it is their aim to make a copy of Warhammer Online, then keep trading is part of it.

2) Keep trading provides experience, renown and influence to all those newbies/alts who are levelling. I have managed to get all that I needed in less than one week, good for me, now I can become high & mighty like some do and start claiming that "keep trading is bad", because I already have gained everything I could before the change was made today. After having chat with one player today I was pretty disgusted to hear his opinion of: "hey, I have everything, let them suffer because they were slow not like us - the pros -, besides it sounds cool and devs will love me as I support their opinion".

3) Keep trading provides social experience, as strange as it may sound. After riding together with same people you start healing them, guarding them, killing alongside them, you throw "thank you" and "good job" to each other. You chat with them, you receive advice, you give advices, you share gifts. You make friends. Personally I do.

4) Keep trading provides fights. Yes, it does. You will meet enemy groups in the keeps, they will defend, you will defend, not always, but there will be fights. And some of them will grow into epic fights just because one side has decided that it will take the keep and the other has decided that you won't take it. Notice that it is "we gain a lot and sometimes we fight while gaining a lot" not "we fight a lot and sometimes we gain while fighting a lot". Realm pride won't be possible with crossrealmers, but that's entirely different problem.

5) Long rant about population balance. Now it's quite balanced so no need of that rant. Removed.

I also wish to express my deep gratitude for all the hard work developers do and their time they spend on this project and its participants. Just do not fix what is not broken.

With respect.

[Mec]

So what is is that you want, bearing in mind that it has to stop keep trading?

I would rather engage with RvR as little as possible, because the entire design is fundamentally flawed.

Don't take this the wrong way Aza. We are all grateful for the devs hard work. However, as an "alpha", i (and many others) feel obligued to point out when something is not working.

Now, keep trading is bad and we all know that. The problem is that once a realm owns all the BO's and keeps there is nothing left for them to do in RvR until the other realm retakes some points. Mythic actually fixed (!!!!!) this by making zones reset after a couple minutes once they got locked (T1-T3). It worked like this:

- Both realms had a keep.
- People had to rank up the zone to level 4 so they could use a ram (only way to destroy keep doors).
- Destro takes enemy keep. Now both keeps in the zone are red.
- 5 (10?) minutes later, keeps reset and go back to their respective realms.

Ranking a zone to rank 4 took a while, and taking the enemy keep gave a lot of xp/renown/inf. So people actually attacked AND defended. Also, any kills near a BO/Keep gave you extra inf/renow.

My suggestion? If a realm owns both keeps in a zone, have them reset after 5/10 minutes. This will end keep trading. Also, keep the increased xp/renown near the BO's (that was a good change). Finally, make keep door attackable ONLY if your realm owns at least 2 BO's (or maybe make the enemy keep lord spawn ONLY if your side owns at least 2 BOs). This will spread the zerg a little (they will have to protect BO's). Reduce the BO lockout timer (i think it was 5 minutes in 1.4.8). Reduce xp/renown gained from locking a BO to avoid BO trading (but keep the killing bonus near them).

These are just friendly suggestions as an alpha tester/gamer/whatever.

Or just have the zone lock like pre rr80 : 1 Realm controls everything = zone lock for 20-30min (can't remember how long) and people go fight over the other zones.
The only thing that could be better is that when the zone is unlocked 1realm doesn't just go there and locks it again without resistance and i have no idea right now how it can be stopped without everyone hating it.

[Jaycub]

So what is is that you want, bearing in mind that it has to stop keep trading?

I would rather engage with RvR as little as possible, because the entire design is fundamentally flawed.

That fundamental flaw is exaggerated even more in the lower tiers because of the lack of any semblance of a campaign.

Adding zone locks like mentioned above, and removing the -60% modifier on rewards for attacking should help, as defending is much more lucrative and easy ATM, and set it up so that only one zone is open at a time in T2/3 untill the population permits having multiple zones open.

For instance right now if Empire/Chaos is locked, then the war moves to the now unlocked GS/Drawf pairing, and when that is locked Empire/Chaos opens up... etc... Same for T3. But if the server gets a steady population of over say 1/2k then you can have zone locks last like 30 minutes instead of rotating to keep only 1 zone open to concentrate the population.

The problem is guild groups etc... would rather sit in a keep in a dead zone / do scenarios than go fight with the zerg against heavily bunkered up keeps when the rewards are not any better or far worse. Funneling everyone into the same zone should do some work against that.

[Shandar]

Excellent changes ! Rewarding RvR more than empty keep captures was definately the solution to bring proper RvR back

[Dalgrimar]

Once a realm takes both keeps in Ostland, move the fight to Dorf. Ostland remains locked until one side takes both keeps in Dorf.

I think this is a very good solution

[Soulcheg]

Excellent changes ! Rewarding RvR more than empty keep captures was definately the solution to bring proper RvR back

Did you play it?

[Azarael]

My suggestion? If a realm owns both keeps in a zone, have them reset after 5/10 minutes. This will end keep trading. Also, keep the increased xp/renown near the BO's (that was a good change). Finally, make keep door attackable ONLY if your realm owns at least 2 BO's (or maybe make the enemy keep lord spawn ONLY if your side owns at least 2 BOs). This will spread the zerg a little (they will have to protect BO's). Reduce the BO lockout timer (i think it was 5 minutes in 1.4.8). Reduce xp/renown gained from locking a BO to avoid BO trading (but keep the killing bonus near them).

So shall it be. I would rather force the battle to switch between Emp and Dwarf than use a 10 min lockout timer, however.

Give me a few days.