[Marauder] Flames of Fate

[Ziliya]

Morf's point is valid. A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

Nos sure about that. Remember all the things destro needs to do to counter 1 AFK KotBS that has two certain tactics slotted. And in this case, both realms have access to that morale.

In my experience, this morale is mostly used for catching fleeing targets (which means you basically already won the fight). If it is used when everyone is still alive, tanks can guard the rooted player/CC enemies, healers can focus heal, etc.

>fleeing targets

This just in, kiting is now fleeing.

[ThePollie]

Morf's point is valid. A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

Nos sure about that. Remember all the things destro needs to do to counter 1 AFK KotBS that has two certain tactics slotted. And in this case, both realms have access to that morale.

In my experience, this morale is mostly used for catching fleeing targets (which means you basically already won the fight). If it is used when everyone is still alive, tanks can guard the rooted player/CC enemies, healers can focus heal, etc.

Still a good point, though. Saying the counter-play to morale 1 is morale 2 is just bad. Barring some extra source of morale de/buffing going on, the marauder will have morale 1 before your morale 2 is ready to stop him. As for the team interfering to stop him? The same can be said for every sort of move, but if you're losing and need to give ground to retreat to a better position, changing your mind to stay and fight a losing battle because someone got snared isn't going to work.

Resolute Defenses counters morale 1, but it's a lot of renown sunk into a long cool down ability, and the Marauder will have morale 1 again five times faster.

[Gachimuchi]

Morf's point is valid. A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

Is there supposed to be a counter to a 3 second ranged knockdown that isn't even a morale? A ranged 3s knockdown and initiative debuff seems strong enough to make it a M1.

[Morf]

Morf's point is valid. A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

Nos sure about that. Remember all the things destro needs to do to counter 1 AFK KotBS that has two certain tactics slotted. And in this case, both realms have access to that morale.

In my experience, this morale is mostly used for catching fleeing targets (which means you basically already won the fight). If it is used when everyone is still alive, tanks can guard the rooted player/CC enemies, healers can focus heal, etc.

Realm balance isnt the problem its that 12 out of 24 classes cant counter it unless they have morale built up previously.
The times i see it used is when u want a quick kill, knowing that the target cannot escape.

[Penril]

Morf's point is valid. A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

Nos sure about that. Remember all the things destro needs to do to counter 1 AFK KotBS that has two certain tactics slotted. And in this case, both realms have access to that morale.

In my experience, this morale is mostly used for catching fleeing targets (which means you basically already won the fight). If it is used when everyone is still alive, tanks can guard the rooted player/CC enemies, healers can focus heal, etc.

Realm balance isnt the problem its that 12 out of 24 classes cant counter it unless they have morale built up previously.
The times i see it used is when u want a quick kill, knowing that the target cannot escape.

Im sorry morf, but to me this thread smells like someone died 1v1 to a Mara/WL. That's how i see it. This morale does NOT guarantee a quick kill when used against a premade.

[Ziliya]

Im sorry morf, but to me this thread smells like someone died 1v1 to a Mara/WL. That's how i see it. This morale does NOT guarantee a quick kill when used against a premade.

That meme is really old and just denies the problem at hand. There is an inherent issue with this ability, theres no denying that. I rarely encounter anyone 1v1, and if I did they would be dead long before they had a morale 1, lets get that right. This ability is a sorry excuse for melee trains to catch a rdps/healer in the most cheap way possible.

[bloodi]

Still a good point, though. Saying the counter-play to morale 1 is morale 2 is just bad. Barring some extra source of morale de/buffing going on, the marauder will have morale 1 before your morale 2 is ready to stop him. As for the team interfering to stop him? The same can be said for every sort of move, but if you're losing and need to give ground to retreat to a better position, changing your mind to stay and fight a losing battle because someone got snared isn't going to work.

Resolute Defenses counters morale 1, but it's a lot of renown sunk into a long cool down ability, and the Marauder will have morale 1 again five times faster.

And again, saying that the m1 root morale is undeniable and uncounterable is why focused mind was brought up, to show that is not true at all, even in 1vs1.

About your other point, what Penril is trying to say is that m1 will put you in a situation a lot of other skills will also do, a situation where the only thing that will save you is having a group ready to get your ass out of trouble.

Should we nerf all of those? A lot are not even morales, have lower cds, are ranged and do much better things that a mere root.

So the existance of a ranged root on marauder / wl is not a big deal because as Penril said, its mostly used in situations you were going to win anyway, a ranged root in a melee is not killing any good group or causing a big imbalance anywhere outside 1vs1 and fights within people without hands.

Again, do you seriously think this is worse than TE?

[ThePollie]

Still a good point, though. Saying the counter-play to morale 1 is morale 2 is just bad. Barring some extra source of morale de/buffing going on, the marauder will have morale 1 before your morale 2 is ready to stop him. As for the team interfering to stop him? The same can be said for every sort of move, but if you're losing and need to give ground to retreat to a better position, changing your mind to stay and fight a losing battle because someone got snared isn't going to work.

Resolute Defenses counters morale 1, but it's a lot of renown sunk into a long cool down ability, and the Marauder will have morale 1 again five times faster.

And again, saying that the m1 root morale is undeniable and uncounterable is why focused mind was brought up, to show that is not true at all, even in 1vs1.

About your other point, what Penril is trying to say is that m1 will put you in a situation a lot of other skills will also do, a situation where the only thing that will save you is having a group ready to get your ass out of trouble.

Should we nerf all of those? A lot are not even morales, have lower cds, are ranged and do much better things that a mere root.

So the existance of a ranged root on marauder / wl is not a big deal because as Penril said, its mostly used in situations you were going to win anyway, a ranged root in a melee is not killing any good group or causing a big imbalance anywhere outside 1vs1 and fights within people without hands.

Again, do you seriously think this is worse than TE?

I'm not saying we should nerf anything. But citing morale 2 as a counter to morale 1 isn't a good counter. Yes, it is a counter, but so is crashing your game to avoid being killed.

[bloodi]

I'm not saying we should nerf anything. But citing morale 2 as a counter to morale 1 isn't a good counter. Yes, it is a counter, but so is crashing your game to avoid being killed.

Man, i am not forgetting to write it? I am really not explaining myself?

I am sure its already the third time i say it, it was even in the post you quoted and replied to but here it goes again.

No one is citing morale 2 as a good counter, we are citing morale 2 existance to refute the argument that and iquote "Healers and ranged dps alike have no possible way to escape from it", this is why it was brought up.

I mentioned it in 3 different posts, if it really is me not being clear, please say how i can be more clear about it because after saying it so much and you still going at it, its seriously starting to make me slighty mad.

Color letters? Caps? Should i fly a plane with it written on a banner across all world major cities? Anything just to not see it again.

I don't understand your point. KotBS is a joke of game design - it's too powerful and it's too passive, and I think it likely that it will remain such a tedious class for as long as the game is played, anywhere it's played. Why bring it up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraum ... s_disorder

[Azarael]

Nos sure about that. Remember all the things destro needs to do to counter 1 AFK KotBS that has two certain tactics slotted. And in this case, both realms have access to that morale.

I don't understand your point. KotBS is a joke of game design - it's too powerful and it's too passive, and I think it likely that it will remain such a tedious class for as long as the game is played, anywhere it's played. Why bring it up?

Is there supposed to be a counter to a 3 second ranged knockdown that isn't even a morale? A ranged 3s knockdown and initiative debuff seems strong enough to make it a M1.

I've internally advocated having Eye Shot knockdown only from the front before, so you won't find me defending it just because I have "Order Biased" in my signature (which is a joke anyway.)