Order lack of melee

[Creedish]

If You loose 19 of 20 SCs then it's either really bad luck or time to consider if maybe You are part of the problem. I have both 2x 40 destro (1 ranged Magus and 1 BG tank) and 2x 40 Order (1x ranged SW and 1x tank SM) and the frustrations are the same for each side really. I do almost only PUGs and some days are just better then others for SCs. A good meleetrain from destro can be hard to deal with, but 4 good order ranged assisting eachother is just as lethal, as they will melt away anything in seconds. But really the whooe idea of 1 side being generally stronger than the other is just nonsens.. its all a matter of skill (or lack of), teamwork and knowing your class and what you are fighting.

A destro melee train is only possible if its 4-5 players assisting eachother - but don't ever think that order cannot do the same. 2x wl 1 sm and a slayer assisting eachother is not something You wanna face as destro. But this setup of players in a PUG is not something you'll see every time ofc, but that goes for both sides. When youndo a lot of PUGs you have to just accept the fact, that you will very seldom have the perfect setup of classes, but that often goes for both teams - so it all comes down to the skill of the players.

In my experience when I take a tank out, the group often lacks hard hitting Dps, but when i switch to my dps, then the group is really lacking tanks/melee... I don't remember what this is called, but I know im not alone in this Still, if You really think that the onky reason while Order is loosing too much is because there are not enough good tanks who guard etc, then roll 1 and turn things around. I'm just pretty sure that You will end up yelling about lack of good healers and not enough hard hitting ranged dps...

[Aurandilaz]

Also Secrets was talking in his last nights stream about dev plans to nerf Invader for Slayers, which might have some interesting side results. Slayer class pop has been rising due to them having an actually good 7pc bonus in invader (same with Choppas too), assuming it gets nerfed and Sov remains bad, I fully expect a lot of Slayer players to go back to playing their rdps alts.
WIll be interesting to see if they actually go through with it, sometimes things get discussed in streams that might not happen, sometimes they do get implemented.
(I can rotate between SL / BW / WL - np if 1 class loses their potency, I'll go play some other one)

[emiliorv]

Now i made a Slayer just to check it out. Still t1 obviously, but i get melted by Witch Elves lmao. This class is so fragile and the dmg is no there. Basically i sacrifice everything to hit like everyone else. Good class design lol.
Ofc people play destro, a choppa doesn't have this issue + more mobility.
Also, no one is healing. Guard is a myth, you never see that in sc's.
Whatevs.

you say that your realm need tanks....but refuses to roll a tank...well => as you can see, YOUR mentality is a part of the problem.
Since the game bring more reward to dps...i suposse that this issue is spected???

[mytreds]

I’m a fresh 40/40 knight so I am doing my part...
I only question the logic and iq of my ranged companions sometimes. They cry on forums and chat “Moar tanks!” yet hardly feel compelled to support us. It’s probably because they see a single Black Ork or Choppa and run for the hills instead of fighting.

[M0rw47h]

I’m a fresh 40/40 knight so I am doing my part...
I only question the logic and iq of my ranged companions sometimes. They cry on forums and chat “Moar tanks!” yet hardly feel compelled to support us. It’s probably because they see a single Black Ork or Choppa and run for the hills instead of fighting.

If you're a Knight, then rDPS isn't there to support you, but you're to support rDPS - share your life pool with them via Guard, defend them with CCs (hello repel darkness!, perma snare enemies for kiting with Crippling Blow and so on).

[Creedish]

I’m a fresh 40/40 knight so I am doing my part...
I only question the logic and iq of my ranged companions sometimes. They cry on forums and chat “Moar tanks!” yet hardly feel compelled to support us. It’s probably because they see a single Black Ork or Choppa and run for the hills instead of fighting.

If you're a Knight, then rDPS isn't there to support you, but you're to support rDPS - share your life pool with them via Guard, defend them with CCs (hello repel darkness!, perma snare enemies for kiting with Crippling Blow and so on).

Thats only really half correct - unless You think that all tanks should stay at the backline and defend the ranged? Yes having a tank in the back to help out can be a good idea, but its just as important to have an effective frontline of tanks/melee to push their backline. If You pull all tanks to the back to help out the ranged, then You'll be on a constant defencive position...

[carlos]

I’m a fresh 40/40 knight so I am doing my part...
I only question the logic and iq of my ranged companions sometimes. They cry on forums and chat “Moar tanks!” yet hardly feel compelled to support us. It’s probably because they see a single Black Ork or Choppa and run for the hills instead of fighting.

If you're a Knight, then rDPS isn't there to support you, but you're to support rDPS - share your life pool with them via Guard, defend them with CCs (hello repel darkness!, perma snare enemies for kiting with Crippling Blow and so on).

Thats only really half correct - unless You think that all tanks should stay at the backline and defend the ranged? Yes having a tank in the back to help out can be a good idea, but its just as important to have an effective frontline of tanks/melee to push their backline. If You pull all tanks to the back to help out the ranged, then You'll be on a constant defencive position...

I find it really hard to believe that this is what he means...

[SaintRon]

2 issues -

1 : since as you said order is ranged heavy - they tend to sit back and DPS... usually at choke points which puts them out of range of a lot of the ideal targets such as healers. It also makes them easier to AOE down and they can't escape due to being body blocked. This is one of the craziest things I've seen so far.

2: Order advice channel is absolutely terrible and tells people that every melee sucks and every tank, but KOTBs suck (IBs won't be wanted, SMs are fragile and Slayers do no damage). Meanwhile telling people engis & BWs are broken OP. Advice does this to healers too. So if you were new why would you go tank? Sounds like you got 1 choice and ranged DPS options are OP.

[M0rw47h]

I’m a fresh 40/40 knight so I am doing my part...
I only question the logic and iq of my ranged companions sometimes. They cry on forums and chat “Moar tanks!” yet hardly feel compelled to support us. It’s probably because they see a single Black Ork or Choppa and run for the hills instead of fighting.

If you're a Knight, then rDPS isn't there to support you, but you're to support rDPS - share your life pool with them via Guard, defend them with CCs (hello repel darkness!, perma snare enemies for kiting with Crippling Blow and so on).

Thats only really half correct - unless You think that all tanks should stay at the backline and defend the ranged? Yes having a tank in the back to help out can be a good idea, but its just as important to have an effective frontline of tanks/melee to push their backline. If You pull all tanks to the back to help out the ranged, then You'll be on a constant defencive position...

Assuming people in scenario know about group composition and they change parties to achieve 2/2/2. It's pretty normal to have tanks assigned to their DPS as guard bots, obviously you still should float guard around, based on who and when is focused. Now, if you got in party two Bright Wizards, you should focus on assisting them with every possible tools you have (guard, cripple, roots, staggers, knockdowns, knockbacks, challenge, M1/2) instead of yoloing in front, as being behind allows you to swap guard to healers also if they are focused. It's even more important to help rDPS than mDPS, because they are extremly fragile, if you leave them alone, enemies will just easily focus them and ignore you in front.


MMR 1800+ Knight here.

[Deathbroker]

Listen to emiliorv!