[POLL] Regarding the Stagger durations

[Ototo]

3 secs are 2 Global Cool Downs, no matter how u see it. CCs crossing the line of 4.5 secs, or 3 GCDs, had allways been regarded as OP and they were allways over-abused. Counting the 30secs inmunity, 5 secs CC is 1/6 of the possible playtime CCed. Not good.

Ototo, you don't even have played at the time they reduced the stagger to 3 sec.

WTF that means??? That i cant sum 1.5+1.5?? That i cant divide 30/5??

[Sulorie]

3 secs are 2 Global Cool Downs, no matter how u see it. CCs crossing the line of 4.5 secs, or 3 GCDs, had allways been regarded as OP and they were allways over-abused. Counting the 30secs inmunity, 5 secs CC is 1/6 of the possible playtime CCed. Not good.

Ototo, you don't even have played at the time they reduced the stagger to 3 sec.

WTF that means??? That i cant sum 1.5+1.5?? That i cant divide 30/5??

It means I seriously doubt that you can judge what the effect of a 3 sec stagger is, as you never experienced it ingame.

[Ototo]

It means I seriously doubt that you can judge what the effect of a 3 sec stagger is, as you never experienced it ingame.

Ofc, i experimented way longer ones... and in all the ranges, cause we didnt have a uniformed system, each CC had its own effect, and some were incredibly long and annoying. I can most likely judge the effect better than you as long as i experimented all them, with all timers, and the reasons why they were eventually hardly nerfed.

[Bozzax]

With good positioning only a few get hit. For example blame movement crippled healers, when both get staggered at the same time.

Same for all AOE basically move and you don't get hit

Additionally stagger shares immunity with other CC, so it doesn't work on all targets due to active immunities.

Yes the "disable family" of CC (knockdown, stun, disarm, and silence) share immunities. How is this special for staggers (stun) compared to a silence or disarm?

A 3 sec stagger is only good for giving free immunity. Remember, it used to be 9 seconds. 5 sec is already a big but necessarily hit to its duration.

Duration of that immunity should be duration x10 as of 1.3.0 b (x6 seconds before that). So in 60s you can get 2x3s compared to 1x5s with a 50s immunity. Obviously 50s is lots better as you can wreck stuff

Disclaimer: immunity timers may have been changed but lets hope I remember it correctly


Comparing them with others in the "disable family" I think it is hard to motivate bumping it to 5s as it is a 10pts 40feet cone even though it can be parried if you have bad positioning

EDIT: noticed it did make pivot table a bit weird for the core abilities but I'm to lazy to redo it
EDIT2: Magus/Engi/DOK/WP and tanks only

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[Sulorie]

It means I seriously doubt that you can judge what the effect of a 3 sec stagger is, as you never experienced it ingame.

Ofc, i experimented way longer ones... and in all the ranges, cause we didnt have a uniformed system, each CC had its own effect, and some were incredibly long and annoying. I can most likely judge the effect better than you as long as i experimented all them, with all timers, and the reasons why they were eventually hardly nerfed.

How you think I haven't experienced all of them?
What they did was a blatant nerf across the board, when selected fixed were needed. That "balancing patch" nerfed sub par classes like Engi/Magus, who excel at CC in the RDPS department and buffed MDPS, as their KD duration was increased.

Additionally stagger shares immunity with other CC, so it doesn't work on all targets due to active immunities.

Yes the "disable family" of CC (knockdown, stun, disarm, and silence) share immunities. How is this special for staggers (stun) compared to a silence or disarm?

A 3 sec stagger is only good for giving free immunity. Remember, it used to be 9 seconds. 5 sec is already a big but necessarily hit to its duration.

Duration of that immunity should be duration x10 as of 1.3.0 b (x6 seconds before that). So in 60s you can get 2x3s compared to 1x5s with a 50s immunity. Obviously 50s is lots better as you can wreck stuff but for a 10 pets ability well too much IMHO

Disclaimer: immunity timers may have been changed but lets hope I remember it correctly


Comparing them with others in the "disable family" I think it is hard to motivate bumping it to 5s as it is a 10pts 40feet cone even though it can be parried if you have bad positioning

Untitled.jpg

Staggers have usually higher duration but they are weaker in several aspects. You can't deal damage to the target and unaware players can cancel the effect. You can KD or silence a healer for 3 sec and attack him to create pressure. During that time the healer gets damage and he can't heal teammates, while stagger only prevents friendly healing but the healer itself is fine. How you justify a 3 sec stagger?
Man, I was happy when I get 3 sec stagger, because any other CC would be more annoying.

AM 5 sec silence is a 10 point ability too and gives you 50 sec immunity.

[Bozzax]

Cmon
KDs are ST and silence/disarms are horrible in comparison*
Staggers are AOE and used on the stuff you don't hit
Silences that are AOE are on 60s CD M3+ and are horrible in comparison*

* parry, block, run, pots, pockets ... should have have longer durations compared to KDs if you ask me

Nod didn't include all classes such as AM to make it more readable

EDIT: This alone make staggers must have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TpoIo9QcHg

[Telen]

Abilities are an issue if a class can play a group role highly dependant on using a single ability. old Quake, pull, group cleanse, ID, healbless proc and the old scorched earth fall into that category imo.

[Tesq]

i agree on sulorie that cc path screw totaly the cc balance,

Stag was to nerf, 9 sec were too much but 3 are a joke, also made those change to magus/engi done before useless. Melee kd was an error for me it wasn't even in the patch note.

i assume that being the classes with lowest dps engi/magus should have the best cc for a rdps, this mean their stag should be better than dok/wp/chosen/Kobs.

They dont need to be my value but some form of progression would be cool to make shine some classes more than other in something.
Not to much duration to make it too much balance breaker in some situation( if aoe even regard the classes that use it) and still not lolable as it's the currently stag ( yea it's usable but meh 1 sec more would have not made anyone cry after being nerfed from 9 seconds)

[Sulorie]

Cmon
KDs are ST and silence/disarms are horrible in comparison*
Staggers are AOE and used on the stuff you don't hit
Silences that are AOE are on 60s CD M3+ and are horrible in comparison*

* parry, block, run, pots, pockets ... should have have longer durations compared to KDs if you ask me

Nod didn't include all classes such as AM to make it more readable

EDIT: This alone make staggers must have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TpoIo9QcHg

Sorc/BW have aoe silence on a 30 sec cooldown.

Concerning the video, seriously?! Only baddies get hit by that. That's as funny as farming players on flying mounts in Praag.

Reduce stagger range to make it more difficult to stun multiple players unless they all stay close together but removing any viability by reducing the duration should be out of question.

[Morf]

Im surprised that most votes have gone the way of 9sec ST staggers. A 9 sec stagger on someone 100ft away gives enough time to have your whole team catch them, dance and take a ss before it wears off and u kill them, also gives WH/WE 9 secs to escape from there selfpunt.
If 9 secs it would be near impossible to duo and fight another duo/4 etc if they have a ST stag.
Do ppl honesty enjoy being deemed useless for 9 secs while your allies get killed ?