Fun is decreasing - lets discuss

[Martok]

The old guard of streamers who have been here for years and decade(s) honestly sounded like they were beyond burnt out. It was just a constant string of complaining about others not running boxes, pushing zones, only kill farming.

Yeah.

[Keula]

Why does this feel like another "muh solo play post" complainig post?

Alsop the complaining about pre-made WB:s is so weird, pugs are gonna die to premades(and "premades" will die to real premades), they always did nothing has changed and nothing will change regards to that no matter what happens. If anything they might live longer now cause retribution/bring it on is nerfed and doesn't do absurd dmg anymore.

[lumpi33]

Why does this feel like another "muh solo play post" complainig post?

Alsop the complaining about pre-made WB:s is so weird, pugs are gonna die to premades(and "premades" will die to real premades), they always did nothing has changed and nothing will change regards to that no matter what happens. If anything they might live longer now cause retribution/bring it on is nerfed and doesn't do absurd dmg anymore.

The intention of the thread was to gather feedback about what players feel is bad or got worse.

The aim should be "How to make it better for the MAJORITY of players". These are neither the premade elites nor the people that focus on 1:1.

The majority of players is always average! Always! It's a gaussian distribution like for example with the IQ. Most are average and then you have the outliers to the bottom and the top. It's the same with the players in RoR. Most are average and then you have the outliers to the bottom (noobish/new players) and to the top (the elite players).

The forum here is over-represented with the elites, people that are playing since many many years and a lot of them play with friends in groups and premades. The casual majority is rather silent, but when they start leaving then things go downhill because they are the backbone of the community, they are the ones that make the game fun, not the elites that keep farming you. Be careful with them. They keep saying things that are not honest or true, just to keep "their" fun, which is the minority (see WE thread where WE players defend their class like lions, knowing very well that is out of balance).

The things I've pointed out in my opening posts are things that from my point of view are creating a bit of a toxic environment, especially for more casual players, the majority.

We have to aim on stuff that increases the fun for the majority again.

When they are constantly getting farmed by guild warbands or stealthers without being able to kill anything then what do think they gonna do? It's not rocket science. They will leave and never come back. In WAR and earlier ROR you were able to walk out solo or in small group and were able to kill things. This got a lot harder over the last years, therefore you see less and less of these players. These are not people looking for 1:1. This is just the usual casual behavior of the majority not caring much about grouping or don't have the time for that.

They have to stop catering to the elite minority. The removed lock out timer for example mostly played into their hands. They farm one side, run out of enemies and want to switch sides just to do the same thing again. SCREW THEM. We would be better off without that type of players/guilds. Casuals are not switching all the time and were probably fine with the old lock outs.

[Culexus]

Why does this feel like another "muh solo play post" complainig post?

Alsop the complaining about pre-made WB:s is so weird, pugs are gonna die to premades(and "premades" will die to real premades), they always did nothing has changed and nothing will change regards to that no matter what happens. If anything they might live longer now cause retribution/bring it on is nerfed and doesn't do absurd dmg anymore.

The intention of the thread was to gather feedback about what players feel is bad or got worse.

The aim should be "How to make it better for the MAJORITY of players". These are neither the premade elites nor the people that focus on 1:1.

The majority of players is always average! Always! It's a gaussian distribution like for example with the IQ. Most are average and then you have the outliers to the bottom and the top. It's the same with the players in RoR. Most are average and then you have the outliers to the bottom (noobish/new players) and to the top (the elite players).

The forum here is over-represented with the elites, people that are playing since many many years and a lot of them play with friends in groups and premades. The casual majority is rather silent, but when they start leaving then things go downhill because they are the backbone of the community, they are the ones that make the game fun, not the elites that keep farming you. Be careful with them. They keep saying things that are not honest or true, just to keep "their" fun, which is the minority (see WE thread where WE players defend their class like lions, knowing very well that is out of balance).

The things I've pointed out in my opening posts are things that from my point of view are creating a bit of a toxic environment, especially for more casual players, the majority.

We have to aim on stuff that increases the fun for the majority again.

When they are constantly getting farmed by guild warbands or stealthers without being able to kill anything then what do think they gonna do? It's not rocket science. They will leave and never come back. In WAR and earlier ROR you were able to walk out solo or in small group and were able to kill things. This got a lot harder over the last years, therefore you see less and less of these players. These are not people looking for 1:1. This is just the usual casual behavior of the majority not caring much about grouping or don't have the time for that.

They have to stop catering to the elite minority. The removed lock out timer for example mostly played into their hands. They farm one side, run out of enemies and want to switch sides just to do the same thing again. SCREW THEM. We would be better off without that type of players/guilds. Casuals are not switching all the time and were probably fine with the old lock outs.

Then make a detailed balance proposal on how an uncoordinated pug warband should be able to defeat a coordinated guild warband with enough regularity that it is considered balanced. You've been posting here for years as well, and most of your posts have been around this same topic of uncoordinated pug play not being able to compete against coordinated group play and how this shouldn't be the case. If you have a solution, provide it. Otherwise, all you're doing is making yet another "Getting kills makes me feel good and my DPS can't get kills as easily as I believe they should" thread.

[Mvl130]

In T4, tanks are too tanky, healers heal for too much, damage dealers have too much burst, it's been the same for years

There are also too much differences between a fresh rank 40 and a fully geared one, this has been complained about for years and years ; if everyone were in conqueror's ward, T4 would be far more enjoyable, and yes I already have several geared characters, I would not mind in the slightest if everything instead of being overtuned was made simpler

But the RoR team is just obsessed with dungeons and live events, as if these were the reasons people were playing this game in the first place

Scenarios being an unbalanced mess has been adressed only earlier this year, despite people complaing about it for I don't know how long ; so as the same problems remain for multiple years, over time things get dull

Another example is the week end scenario event, I am so sick of spending three days doing one scenario only, just because people are obsessed with gaining more renown because of the stats gap it creates, it's just not fun at all

[lumpi33]

Then make a detailed balance proposal on how an uncoordinated pug warband should be able to defeat a coordinated guild warband with enough regularity that it is considered balanced.

An uncoordinated pug warband will never defeat a coordinated guild warband. That's ok. HOWEVER, what I'm experiencing on almost a daily basis is that some of the coordinated guild warbands have optimized their game play in a way that it has become cheesy and I'd even say broken unbalanced since they are getting hundreds of kills without dying.

So, what would be my approach to counter this?

In my believe groups and warbands have already a massive advantage just by forming a group. They are getting their fancy group overview making it easy to see what is happening, selecting allies, seeing where their allies are, making it easy to stick and move together, reading the combat and when to fall back, assisting with each other. That's all before any group ability or group synergy comes into play. Just by forming groups/warbands.

Now lets add single target healing and guard. Only these two things alone give you a huge advantage already to players without group. Now if you add all the other stuff there is, especially the group abilities, like prayers/auras, group hots/heals/absorbs, group defensive morals, group utility like faster hitting or whatever then a group/warbands gains MASSIVE advantages over everybody else. By adding discord and having a warband with 8 players and 8 tanks watching, with good players in end gear, maybe even overpowered classes and you gain another massive boost in power.

That's exactly what some guilds are doing. They optimize it to the last bit by using literally every advantage they can get just to not die and kill others easier.

It should be obvious how massive the power gap between such a warband and everybody else is then.

Is it really good to have such warbands roaming around? I'd say no. I'd say less is more. I'd say the only way to reduce their power is to reduce their abilities to increase their power since they will always optimize the last bit out of it.

How? Start focusing at things that increase the power of groups and reduce it. The group synergies. Stuff like group heals/hots/absorbs/morals are crazy strong for no reason. Tanks like knights/chosens running with 3 passive auras is just absurd. Giving healers more power with the recent healer overhaul only made things worse. The good warband players now have additional group hots, additional instant heals and faster casts (e.g. looking at Shaman/AM), while the pugs only getting burst down because the good warbands no only have insane survivability, they also have insane damage and assisting.

Just think about it. Lower tiers feel better because there is less of everything (less defense, less healing, less damage), especially the group stuff, allowing better and more balanced fighting.

This is where I'd start changing things. Reducing the power of groups/warbands to reduce the power gap between them and others. That doesn't mean that a bunch of random solos are going to win vs such groups. Not at all. If you have read this post you know why. The aim should be to avoid groups/warbands with hundreds of kills and barely any deaths. They can only do it because of the mentioned reasons. Nerf it down and they will start dying again. Dying is part of the game and important for others to have fun as well, not only that one roaming elite warband.

Beside that, please change the lock out timer again. That constant side hopping by the farming premades is just awful.