Questions regarding Leading Shots and Dity Tricks

[Bretin]

- double post -

[Azarael]

It modifies Envenomed Blade, which is typed as standard buff. It will not currently stack.

@Bretin: So be it. In light of this, should it be allowed to stack with CtW?

[Penril]

It modifies Envenomed Blade, which is typed as standard buff. It will not currently stack.

@Bretin: So be it. In light of this, should it be allowed to stack with CtW?

I believe it should. Think about it:

- KotBS + SW = effective buff of 35% to crit for the whole group.
- BG + WE = effective debuff of 30-45% (depends on how much hate the BG has) for ONE target. Can't be spammed since CtW has a 5 sec CD. So even if the WE goes from target to target, best she will get is 25/45/25/45/25/45 (after several GCDs).

And of course, both EB and CtW can be cleansed.

edit: Also, WE loses dps if using this tactic.

[Xaun]

since we are here: we could also show you how to hit around 18-25 times in 1 second - a feature which is available for one destru class

Quoting it like this implies you consider it in the same vein as the other abilities in discussion when it is really a bug that you should be reporting it, especially if you know how to trigger it as you claim above. Not doing so would imply at the very least you don't care if it is fixed, so either happy to have a bugged ability or actively use it

I like crippling strikes (even though some people in this forum hate it because it "doesnt stack with Challenge so it is a terrible tactic".)

i'm also one of those who think CS is a tactic for bad-mediocre tanks simply to cover their inability of using Challenge properly. You were asking for counterplays, that's why i named it.

Because Challenge is an always-up counterplay to uptimes on EA, DT and LS

means you cant do the OP double mara

double marauder isn't op right now. imho WE+Mrd ist the BiS destru setup atm, when it comes to a melee train. followed by choppa + marauder

The only thing we agree on it seems

Whilst Crippling Strikes does impair dmg - the chosen needs to land a crit to do so and without a spammable AoE and (realistically the +crit that requires a 2H) it is very situational as to how effective it can be (or not)

If you're not able to keep CS up all the time, you do as much wrong as you did when you were putting Touch of Rot on my AM in a 1vs1 situation . No hate mate, just a l2p issue but i know Marauder is also a balanced class and stuff... quality comments

LOL at weak troll attempt.

Pray tell, what is the magical secret to a Chosen being reliably able to landing a crit on all/most of the high dps/heal targets that are 80+ feet away and pre-kiting? (from a guy who proclaims he doesn't use it anyway)

Septic blade is a big damage nerf and single target

regarding ST = read above
big dmg nerf = if losing brute force is a BIG damage nerf for you idk what to say. all the necessary procs of a WE such as WB or Kisses don't even scale with strength so it's roughly a 5% overall dmg loss for a effective -25% crit debuff.

Again, from someone who proclaims not to use it, I'm surprised (not really) you advocate it and feel that other dps tactics contribute so little

Like crippling strikes, if your enemies are kind enough to clump together for you to drop your aoe and stay like this such that your WE can cycle through each of them and apply SB - then it's all good. But that's rarely the case

Leading Shots requires 1 crit, is on no recast cooldown and buffs +15% to crit for group (melee/magic/ballistic and heal)

by your logic earlier when talking about CS, it's very situational as to how effective it can be (or not).

Excellent, let's look at this comparison

Chosen = tank and limited to melee range (predominantly), outside of 2h spec very limited access to +crit
SW = rdps, access to crit tactics in T4, benefits from +20% crit from knight, can do so from 65-100ft

Chosen has to close through all the cc and tag an opponent (harder to weather this as 2h) and hope for a critical and thereby reduce THAT targets output dps
SW can shoot from the safety of range, with a much higher chance to crit, and his aa's also with the possibility of critting will buff 5 OTHER group mates chance to crit making his healers heal for more and his dps hit harder

Still apples vs apples?

[Bretin]

@Bretin: So be it. In light of this, should it be allowed to stack with CtW?

well i'm not 100% sure if it should really stack or not tbh. it might be a bit too good since the max crit atm is 9% RR, 9% Gear, 20% Kobs and 15% SW. that's 53% in total and requires a SW and KotBS in group. would like to test it with 35 when CtW is ingame.

[Bozzax]

It modifies Envenomed Blade, which is typed as standard buff. It will not currently stack.

@Bretin: So be it. In light of this, should it be allowed to stack with CtW?

I believe it should. Think about it:

- KotBS + SW = effective buff of 35% to crit for the whole group.
- BG + WE = effective debuff of 30-45% (depends on how much hate the BG has) for ONE target. Can't be spammed since CtW has a 5 sec CD. So even if the WE goes from target to target, best she will get is 25/45/25/45/25/45 (after several GCDs).

And of course, both EB and CtW can be cleansed.

edit: Also, WE loses dps if using this tactic.

Well order have exactly the same stuff

BG: Crush The Weak / IB: Kneecapper

SM: Lingering Intimidation / WE: Septic Blade

[Penril]

It modifies Envenomed Blade, which is typed as standard buff. It will not currently stack.

@Bretin: So be it. In light of this, should it be allowed to stack with CtW?

I believe it should. Think about it:

- KotBS + SW = effective buff of 35% to crit for the whole group.
- BG + WE = effective debuff of 30-45% (depends on how much hate the BG has) for ONE target. Can't be spammed since CtW has a 5 sec CD. So even if the WE goes from target to target, best she will get is 25/45/25/45/25/45 (after several GCDs).

And of course, both EB and CtW can be cleansed.

edit: Also, WE loses dps if using this tactic.

Well order have exactly the same stuff

BG: Crush The Weak / IB: Kneecapper

SM: Lingering Intimidation / WE: Septic Blade

True, but we are talking about 2 tanks. Destro would have it on Tank + mdps (stealth one at that). Let's say the WE jumps a SW and debuffs his crit by 25%. His leading shots procs will be less frequent. If he can keep the SW busy enough so the BG catches up and uses CtW, the SW would now be at -45% chance to crit making his Leading Shots never proc at all (in fact the SW should be dead before he gets a LS proc; when respawns/gets rezzed you repeat the process).

End result: Order only has +20% (EA + DT) chance to crit on the whole group. Destro neutralized the crit chance of ONE guy, and negated the possibility of an additional 15% crit on the rest.

If you want to do something similar with SM + IB, that means you dont have a KotBS (unless you are running 3 tanks). So you lose DT + EA. Balanced.

[Bretin]

Quoting it like this implies you consider it in the same vein as the other abilities in discussion when it is really a bug that you should be reporting it, especially if you know how to trigger it as you claim above. Not doing so would imply at the very least you don't care if it is fixed, so either happy to have a bugged ability or actively use it

do you even know what i'm talking about? no bug abuse m8 :> just the know-how to see what's good or not

[Bozzax]

@Bretin: So be it. In light of this, should it be allowed to stack with CtW?

well i'm not 100% sure if it should really stack or not tbh. it might be a bit too good since the max crit atm is 9% RR, 9% Gear, 20% Kobs and 15% SW. that's 53% in total and requires a SW and KotBS in group. would like to test it with 35 when CtW is ingame.

The +25% heal crits alone makes it worth it to bring them and I'm not even factoring in heal crit procs

[bloodi]

You are all talking about -25% stuff but what about the slayer/choppa debuff?

The point of it being 100% is to remove all your base crit chance, if its actually a -100% chance to crit, making you unable to crit unless you surpass +100% now that is some broken stuff.

So what are we aiming for here, every +/- crit should modify only base, be absolute or on case by case basis?

For the sake of it not being a mess, its better for everything to work in the same way but i doubt that was Mythic idea seeing the values.