Lucca,Luuca wrote:Guard in RoR
Preface:
In this post, I will attempt to break Guard down to its core definition in order to discuss the benefits and drawbacks, define the true value of guard, and make suggestions as to how changes could be made that will increase Guard use rates among tank players of all levels, make Guard more interesting and fun, as well as answering the counter argument to any changes to Guard.
The Proposed Issues with Guard
Reasons for Change
It has been proposed in a previous forums thread that the ability Guard be changed in some way for the following reasons;
1. To promote its use by new/uneducated players to improve play for everyone
2. To make using Guard less boring and more “Fun” (read as interesting)
Counter Arguments
The counter argument to changing Guard, as I see them, is primarily based upon the following arguments;
1. Any change to Guard would require a revamp of the damage balancing in-game
2. Guard was designed for group play and is an untouchable ability as such an integral part
Section I: Defining Guard
Whether it’s called “Guard” or “Save Da Runts”, the ability is the same.
Core Ability available at rank 10. It has a 150ft Casting Range, No AP Cost, Insta-Cast, No Cooldown
Tool Tip Reads:
“You defend one of your groupmates and try to take attacks meant for them. As long as you are within 30 feet of them, any damage that they suffer and all hate that they cause will be split evenly between the two of you”
Let’s break the Tool Tip down in terms of benefits and drawbacks;
Benefits:
1. You are able to siphon off damage from your guard target to help keep them alive
2. Guard does not cost AP, has no cooldown, is Insta-Cast and has 150ft Cast Range
2a. You can switch guard at will without cost.
2b. Moving guard means keeping multiple targets alive as the damage focus of your attackers shifts.
3. You are able to use your normal defensive stats to mitigate the incoming guard damage
3a. You can Block, Dodge, Parry damage from Guard
3b. Your Toughness also mitigates the incoming Guard damage
4. Guard damage can proc “On Damage” Skills, Abilities, and Tactics if slotted
4a. Reactive Damage Output abilities, Auras, Tactics
4b. Self-Healing abilities, Auras, Tactics
4c. Damage Shield abilities and Tactics
Drawbacks:
1. Must remain within 30 feet of guarded target in order for Guard to work
1a. No in-game indicator of range from Guard target to Guarding tank.
2. Target of Guard must be in the same party as the tank
Conclusions about Guard from the Tool Tip:
Benefits:
At face value, when looked at by an experienced player, Guard has many useful benefits and yet very little drawbacks. In the Benefits section above, only items 1 and 2 are derived directly from reading the Tool Tip in-game. As such, a newer player might read the Tool Tip and surmise that if he uses the ability, he will simply be taking more damage and therefore dying faster than he would otherwise without Guard active. This, in my opinion is one of the issues in achieving adoption/use rates among newer/inexperienced Tanks in-game.
Items 3 and 4 in Benefits section above are not directly spelled out within the tool tip and an inexperienced player may not fully understand that, as a tank, if specced for it, Guard damage may actually help your damage output and/or survivability. Without a deeper understanding of their class mechanics and Tactic options, a newer player may not fully realize the true value of Guard and choose to forego its use.
Drawbacks:
30 Feet: 1 & 1a above
For an experienced player and advanced user, loading an add-on to assist with tracking your guard target and having a visual notification when you are over 30 feet from your guard target in-game is not an issue. That said, the new or inexperienced tank player will have no direct input, other than damage taken/avoided animations and sounds that he is within Guard range and its working.
Guard counters in game consist of Punts, Roots, and snares (or a combination of these) in order to place the guard target or Guarding Tank over 30 feet from each other.
Same Party: 2 above
While having to be in the same party as your Guard target seems like a non-issue for experienced players who have a regular group they run with, for the new, inexperienced, or solo players this is a major drawback. In a PuG environment, it is often impossible to place guard where it will do the most good. This is due to several factors outlined below;
Player ignorance. The biggest issues I have seen are new and inexperienced players not understanding how to physically move themselves from party to party in SCs. When players simply Join-and-Go without regard to Party Composition, you end up with a tank having no viable guard options within his party.
While I do not ORvR as much as I did on LIVE, I have been in a few PuG warbands in RoR and WB Leaders either do not know how to physically move other players in warbands to set up proper group compositions, or they just don’t understand why they should. This lack of good group composition also leads to lacking opportunities and reasons to use Guard.
While many of these issues may be solved with experience and players “helping” other players learn how to do these things, this can be a slow and hit-or-miss proposition based upon language barriers, chat settings, and attitude(s) of the teacher(s) and student(s)
Section I Conclusions and Suggestions:
1. The Tool Tip for Guard does a good job of highlighting items 1 and 2 under Guard Benefits, it does a poor job of explaining Item 3 in Guard Benefits above; that normal mitigation abilities and stats apply to incoming Guard damage to the Tank.
a. SUGGESTION
Change the Guard tool Tip to include a statement about normal avenues of mitigation of Incoming Guard damage for the tank.
ab. Reason: Having this information may help new/inexperienced players understand that Guard will not necessarily cause instant death when they use it in-game. Thus promoting usage. (Item 1 in Reasons for Change above)
2. The Tool Tip for Guard does a good job of highlighting items 1 and 2 under Guard Benefits, it does a poor job of explaining Item 4 in Guard Benefits above; that incoming Guard damage to the Tank can proc “On Damage” abilities and Tactics in use.
a. SUGGESTION
Change the Guard tool Tip to include a statement about incoming Guard damage to the Tank can proccing “On Damage” abilities and Tactics in use.
b. Reason: Having this information may help new/inexperienced players understand hidden benefits derived from using Guard in-game and promote its use. (Item 1 in Reasons for Change above)
3. The Tool Tip for Guard does a good job of defining the 30 foot distance requirement discussed in the Drawbacks item 1; however as noted in Drawbacks item 1a, there is no native in-game method for knowing your distance from the Guarded player.
a. SUGGESTION
Change the UI to include a visual Guard distance indicator for the Guarding Tank in-game, a chat window notification, and a visual icon over the guarded target in-game similar to the current Guard ad-ons in use by experienced players currently.
b. Reason: Having this information will help new/inexperienced players to better utilize Guard and give them a visual reminder when it’s not in use. It will add to the interest factor and the “Fun” factor (Item 2 in Reasons for Change above) because you are better able to use Guard correctly. That, and bright colors!
4. The Tool Tip for Guard does a good job of explaining that Guard is only useable on members of your own party. That said, due to the poor understanding of new and inexperienced players and Warband Leaders, achieving proper group composition often means poor choices for a Guard target when in PuG SCs or PuG Warbands.
a. SUGGESTION
Change Guard’s Usage and the Guard tool Tip to include use of Guard on ANY player within your Warband, Party, or Scenario.
b. Reason: Having the flexibility to be able to place Guard on players within these groups will help eliminate the need for perfect group compositions in Warbands and SCs, promote the use of Guard and the “floating” of guard between nearby comrades, and help level the field for a PuG SC 12 man against an organized 6-man+6Man in SCs. It will also add to the interest factor and the “Fun” factor (Item 2 in Reasons for Change above) because you are able to use Guard as needed in ORvR and SCs, not limited to watching an ally near you die after being punted 65 feet away from your original Guard target. Also promotes Group Play.
With these suggestions above, we will have better educated the new and inexperienced Tank players as to the true value of using Guard, given them the in-game native tools to better utilize this class-defining ability, and broadened the scope to which Guard can be used to both promote its liberal and effective use, while taking some of the “sting” out of the organized and experienced 6-man groups ability to move targets at will; A counter for less organized PuGs against an organized opponent.
With these changes, we have neither asked for changes to the amount of mitigation Guard provides, nor asked for a change to the distance requirements of Guard. What I have proposed are a more Educational Tool Tip, a better UI to use the ability and remind players when it is NOT in use, and a more liberal application policy to promote its use in-game.
I admit that with these 3 changes, Guard becomes stronger than it was before. As such, and in the interest of addressing Items 1 and 2 in Counter Arguments above, I make the following observations and suggestions.
Counter Argument Observations and Replies
Item 1: “Any change to Guard would require a revamp of the damage balancing in-game”
Observation: While I agree that either increasing or decreasing the amount of damage split between the Guarder and the Guard target or increasing or decreasing the range at which Guard is active will necessitate a reworking of the damage balance in-game, my suggestions above do not change the core mechanic of Guard. Mitigation amounts/split stay the same as well as the range of guard.
One could argue that by adding in a native UI mod for Guard distance, Guard target Icon, and a Chat notification that, possibly, Guard becomes more intuitive and therefore more powerful, but these items are already in game for most of the “good” tanks, and Guard is not broken because of them. As such, the point is invalid.
One could more easily argue that eliminating the need for your guard target to be within your individual 6-man group makes Guard “broken” due to the ease at which Tanks could now assist fellow players and “thwart” the opposition during the “fog of war” when players in a Keep Take Warband get all jumbled up or during an SC when players get separated. While I agree that this change will add a lot of interesting use of Guard, it will also put more stress on the Tank to perform at a higher level. The ability to “spread Guard around” as needed may have the added benefit of increasing the average Time-to-Kill for PuGs versus an organized group. In most PuG player’s opinion, that’s not a horrible thing. Even including the opinions of the organized 6 man crowd, – they like a higher level of RvR (ask me how I know).
Based upon these changes, Item 1 under Counter Arguments is invalid. We can make changes to Guard to better educate players, make using Guard easier and more intuitive, and even open up the available Guard targets in Groups to promote its well-placed use without the need for a complete overhaul of the damage balancing in RoR.
Item 2: “Guard was designed for group play and is an untouchable ability as such an integral part”
Observation: Guard, by definition, is a group only ability. As such I agree that it is an integral part of group play in RoR. While being necessary to assist your team by helping other players to survive in group play, nothing I have suggested so far would change any of that. In fact, once new and inexperienced players start understanding Guard and using it, it will promote group play. Even with the expanded group availability I have suggested, they still need to be in a group or SC to use the ability. No changes were made to make the ability any less useful for group play nor any less effective. I have simply suggested that we find ways to educate players about Guard, Give them an easier way to track and use Guard, and given them more opportunities to use it and/or use it on proper/necessary targets. It’s not changed, its better.
Based upon the fact that, for any group, Guard has not changed in any material way, the Counter Argument outlined in item 2 is invalid. We can make changes to Guard to better educate players, make using Guard easier and more intuitive, and even open up the available Guard targets in Groups to promote its well-placed use without any material change to how Guard functions in group play in RoR.
Balancing Guard in RvR
In terms of getting new or inexperienced players to use Guard effectively in RvR, if the above suggestions do not work to promote its use, the development team may want to consider the following changes to Guard in RoR:
Guard is perhaps the single most defining ability for Tank in RoR. Even with its importance to successful group play and wins, it is not tracked or monitored as a group contribution statistic in-game. My best guess is the original designers did not realize just how essential a smart tank with a floating Guard is when in ORvR or SCs. No matter what you may think, Guard is the biggest counter to every DPS in the game. Bigger than any stat, even bigger than LoS.
As such, in looking at the Benefits versus Drawback for Guard, we can all see the imbalance. A well-guarded semi-skilled healer on either side in nearly unkillable by equal numbers of attackers. The only counters to Guard are as follows;
1. Punt the Tank out of guard range
2. Punt the Guarded target out of Guard range
3. Snare the either Guarder or Guarded to create a gap
4. Knock down either Guarder or Guarded to create a gap
5. Number of attackers – Focus fire from 3+ attackers.
In an organized group, focusing one target is the norm. Using a combination of punts, snares, and KDs to separate the Guarded pair and burn down the non-tank is routine. We can all agree that for a majority of RoR players, this idea is as foreign as the surface of Mars. This inability or unwillingness to work as a team to focus DPS is not the fault nor the responsibility of the designers nor the development team here at RoR. All that being said, if the suggestions being proposed above actually go into place and more tanks are able to float guard around, … well, you can see the issue.
To balance Guard in RoR I would suggest a system that improves the effectiveness of the counters, not a change to Guard. By leaving Guard alone in terms of mitigation and distance, we can reward smart play and teamwork by helping the most common method of Guard Counter to be more effective; the Punt.
While I understand that many players already feel like the RvR in RoR should be called “World of Snarecraft” I am going to suggest a snare on the tank.
As the Tank Guarding the target takes incoming Guard damage, we could set thresholds on the damage and use those thresholds to apply a cumulative snare effect.
For example:
2k damage in = 10% snare
3k damage in = 20% snare
4k Damage in = 30% snare
This snare would be removable using the Juggernaut ability or would dispel and reset after 3 seconds of reaching the last damage threshold. It would trigger and be effected by any snare immunity timers in-game already in place, but would not be cleansable.
By adding this snare, you will add to the effectiveness of the Punt counter. This gives the attacking team a 3 second advantage above and beyond the normal Punt that occurs now. The Tank would still need to either run back to his guard target or the guard target would need to move to the tank (or both) to get back into Guard range. With an initial snare on the tank being applied without cost of AP by the attackers, it puts a level of Risk into Guard that is missing now.
If you think about this on a Guarded MPS situation, this would effectively slow the pace at which the Mdps could run into the lines and move to new targets while staying in guard range. If the tank is 30% snared all the time because the Mdps is taking major damage, chances are, if he’s not smart, the Mdps will extend out of guard range and leave himself open. Currently, a tank on the elbow of most semi-skilled Mdps can move with relative ease through the mid and back lines, even when under pressure from the opposition, and kill unguarded targets or RDps at will.
This proposed Damage-Snare change to Guard works for both the defenders and attackers and helps keep Guard from becoming all benefit with no risk. The Guard Snare would add a level of Risk to the reward that Guard normally provides.
In Conclusion:
There are ways to improve RoR beyond what was known in AoR. The wiliness to do so seems present in the development team and in many of the active members of this forum; however, we have to consider the hundreds of players who possibly have no clue these discussions are even going on. Keeping Guard as it is – a class defining (game defining really) Tank ability that is an integral part of group play – as it is now, yet enhancing how players understand and use the ability while balancing the benefits with some risk should be the goal of every fan of this game. I feel I have made basic suggestions on how to educate players on the ability, promote its use in-game, and make it a fun and even more useful ability in any group/SC. The snare component is a semi-innocuous way to keep Guard as it is, and yet reward smart counter play and benefit defenders.
Guard: Exactly the same, only different.
-Luuca
Most of the suggestions here were about changing the tooltip and function of guard to allow for being used across warbands and what not. I dont know if they have this ability. Also, much of these suggestions (while very well thought out) I dont know how practical they are... Adding a snare to tanks only seems to further create a problem with guard.
What kind of "PUG" tank will use this in which they WILL take more damage and then also become snared?
