[Mara] Deadly Clutch

[SRoth137]

However, it is important to consider that the Sav/Brut marauder is currently one of the few class builds which is working well in the generally underperforming category of MDPS. In my view, it is the standard to which other MDPS classes/builds should be elevated. It seems, unfortunately, that its relative viability is being treated as an undesirable anomaly by some elements of our community.

Well said.

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Spoiler:

What again is the reason for wanting to put marauder on the chopping block?

Adds nothing to the discussion - Penril.

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

So the marauder has for a very long time enjoyed the best collection of debuffs available in the game. It has an excellent wounds debuff, the best armour debuff and the ability to use a tactic to gain the best incoming heal debuff also. Wounds, armour, and inc heal no other single class in the game can bring all of this to the table and that is something of a problem.

So why is it a problem for a class to bring all of this to the table?, well simply answered if the marauder brings everything why take any other class?. Back on live it wasn't uncommon to see double Mara premades because well they where just that powerful other mdps where much less common.

So looking at which of the three abilities should be for the chop so to speak I eventually decided that deadly clutch would be the correct move for several reasons.

Because the marauder has a good armor, wounds and heal debuff (if given up a tactic for), OP references non existant double marauder premades and decides we should axe an ability further or find something else to gimp the class.

There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to further reduce the marauders effectiveness at weakening and killing a single target that is standing toe to toe with him.

[CptSmeea]

I can see the point in that mara don't need to invest soo deeply into sav for get the best part. I think if there would be a switching up in abilify tree that would solve the Jack of áll trade issue. Hoever i dont feel like this is the case, anyway. Draining strike is a kinda weak ability for where is stands in the saw tree, so putting the CC to the top is can be balanced. But if that come to happen i hope some adjustments come to the WL as well .

I can't wait for the treads about the AP draining maras are op

Now to be real, this comparison to the BG are kinda stupid, i feel. The problems of the BG is not that hé got outshine by a mdps, hé got outshined by every other tank in the game. Can we dump this comparison to a tank?

[TenTonHammer]

I can see the point in that mara don't need to invest soo deeply into sav for get the best part. I think if there would be a switching up in abilify tree that would solve the Jack of áll trade issue. Hoever i dont feel like this is the case, anyway. Draining strike is a kinda weak ability for where is stands in the saw tree, so putting the CC to the top is can be balanced. But if that come to happen i hope some adjustments come to the WL as well .

I can't wait for the treads about the AP draining maras are op

Now to be real, this comparison to the BG are kinda stupid, i feel. The problems of the BG is not that hé got outshine by a mdps, hé got outshined by every other tank in the game. Can we dump this comparison to a tank?

draining wipes is very strong when paired with CF on BG

Switching the order of Sav tree abilities does nothing as people go all the way up sav already, all this would change is the order at which maras might get their abilites

[Dajciekrwi]

Meanwhile marauder got a dead ability called Wave of Terror that noone uses.

You forgot about - Mutated Energy,:)

[Toldavf]

Agreed. I haven't seen any "top" premade running double mara. It is definitely not meta.

The highest damage premades run lots of procs for the extra dps unless there was a change i missed they probably still are.

[CimbaTest]

Agreed. I haven't seen any "top" premade running double mara. It is definitely not meta.

Don't get me wrong but there are hardly any (destro) groups left that are interested in cookie cutter builds. Engima gone, Fusion trying to rebuild, haven't seen Nyky's grps for while. Critical Acclaim dissolved (and they acutally ran double marauder with decent success).
With virtually no small scale community the rest of the grps obviously move more towards oRvR compatible setups. That these don't include double mara (or any kind of 2xmDPS) shouldn't come as to big of a surprise.

[Vandoles]

I'm currently leveling a mara and although my input might be a bit from the newbie side, I just wanted to say my part in something - I'm all for switching gifts in the middle of a fight and allowing hybrid builds, but it seems to me that there's one build for ST damage that involves sav/brut and 1 monstro aoe build. So to me nerfing deadly clutch not only nerfs the sav/brut build, but also just brutality by itself.

So wouldn't it be worth considering nerfing deadly clutch while boosting other sav skills so there are more options for rotations than sav -> debuff -> brut -> drop damage? For example nerf deadly clutch to not give 50% heal debuff, but let's say give the mara self-heal from Rend?

And give brutality a slight buff so it's not then completely overlooked? Like maybe unstable convulsions, it seems to be a sub-par tactic. Brutality doesn't have that much diversity to play, so maybe it could insert a little bit of timing and such. Maybe have 50% increased damage while the opponent is channeling, aka swift strikes of the SW? It'll make a mainly brut build more fun and viable.

And you could lock thunderous blow to sav so maras have to switch still (if you need to maintain that for any reason).

Anyway I genuinely don't have that much idea of the actual changes, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the fact only one mara build and playthrough seems viable and this change could be redirected to be more positive.

[Tesq]

I'm currently leveling a mara and although my input might be a bit from the newbie side, I just wanted to say my part in something - I'm all for switching gifts in the middle of a fight and allowing hybrid builds, but it seems to me that there's one build for ST damage that involves sav/brut and 1 monstro aoe build. So to me nerfing deadly clutch not only nerfs the sav/brut build, but also just brutality by itself.

So wouldn't it be worth considering nerfing deadly clutch while boosting other sav skills so there are more options for rotations than sav -> debuff -> brut -> drop damage? For example nerf deadly clutch to not give 50% heal debuff, but let's say give the mara self-heal from Rend?

And give brutality a slight buff so it's not then completely overlooked? Like maybe unstable convulsions, it seems to be a sub-par tactic. Brutality doesn't have that much diversity to play, so maybe it could insert a little bit of timing and such. Maybe have 50% increased damage while the opponent is channeling, aka swift strikes of the SW? It'll make a mainly brut build more fun and viable.

And you could lock thunderous blow to sav so maras have to switch still (if you need to maintain that for any reason).

Anyway I genuinely don't have that much idea of the actual changes, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the fact only one mara build and playthrough seems viable and this change could be redirected to be more positive.

change all for change nothing , war mastery allow you to take almsot 1 path and half/2 mastery so there is not such things as mono mastery; unless you need to invest in every of the skills which it dosen't happen on msot of class.