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Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

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Charon
Posts: 297

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#61 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:26 pm

Azarael wrote:I don't get the complaints about Sigmar's Shield. With SWI up, mine heals for about 250 every time the target takes direct damage. Against melee trains and other fast attackers, that can rapidly add up into 4 or 5k.

Im fully subjective in this mater.

Maybe its l2p issue but usually when im under burst of mdpses or rdpses i don't have time or much frequent - ability (kd, disarm etc) to use SoS and its to short to keep it constantly on WP. I think that you projected new SoS as sort of soft panic button but it don't work like that at least in my example.

And what most important - Im using melee heal spec S11/G15(1p from mercenary set. I have used it for long before current changes) and i have limited amount of available free points (especially when i want keep Grace of Sigmar) so SoS has to compete with other tactics and skill (i found Greave of Sigmar very useful).

BTW i fully appreciate and support your work Azarael.
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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#62 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:42 pm

blaqwar wrote:Does this mean that you will be reverting the changes on aura cooldowns to the previous iteration, meaning back to 15sec/5min? Just for clarification on what to expect.
Yes.

What you can expect in next iteration:
  • TE/SR to 500%, no longer undefendable.
  • Reverting of DF/MI/F change.
  • Guard will no longer be allowed to affect the outcome of a lifetap's heal calculation. This means that even if Guard dissipates the damage from a lifetap, the lifetap's heal component will act as though it had hit. (It is a requirement that Guard not be allowed to f*ck up an entire school of healing by itself for undefendable to be lifted.)
  • Switches to or from Celerity or Righteousness are 5 minutes. This now represents a commitment to moding and not allowing stance switching between mDPS and mHeal modes. Celerity/Righteousness will serve as the future host of any classical hybrid builds as well as mDPS builds.

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Valfaros
Posts: 260

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#63 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:01 pm

Azarael wrote:
blaqwar wrote:Does this mean that you will be reverting the changes on aura cooldowns to the previous iteration, meaning back to 15sec/5min? Just for clarification on what to expect.
Yes.

What you can expect in next iteration:
  • TE/SR to 500%, no longer undefendable.
  • Reverting of DF/MI/F change.
  • Guard will no longer be allowed to affect the outcome of a lifetap's heal calculation. This means that even if Guard dissipates the damage from a lifetap, the lifetap's heal component will act as though it had hit. (It is a requirement that Guard not be allowed to f*ck up an entire school of healing by itself for undefendable to be lifted.)
  • Switches to or from Celerity or Righteousness are 5 minutes. This now represents a commitment to moding and not allowing stance switching between mDPS and mHeal modes. Celerity/Righteousness will serve as the future host of any classical hybrid builds as well as mDPS builds.
Reverting of DF/MI change you mean lifetaps will heal 20% less with DF wouldn't like to loose nearly the compleat utility you get out of it because than the dmg+burst should compleatly match a dd.

+After some further testing both with CoC and CoV; I think both are close to what they supposed to be while I think the nerv to CoV was a bit too harsch so it's good that you lift it again but those jumps man 550 to 350 to 500 can't you just do a middle thing...450 or so but whatever.
The buff to CoC still feels a bit too strong but TE heals now with 400 to 500 and Rend sould for 1000 (non crit very weak targets) so removing another 20% for DF and another 20% if MI is used will be bad. I mean you put as torture dok in a lot of points sac. for a reason not getting any heal out of it esp. against harder targets will be quite annoying and remove the utility.

+How does the CoC dmg buff work it says up to 25% so does that mean it is liniar reduced with less SE?
Last edited by Valfaros on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sotora
Posts: 320

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#64 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:02 pm

Azarael wrote:
  • TE/SR to 500%, no longer undefendable.
What exactly do that mean? I just want to clarify. Heal since it's dependant on dmg - will be decreased like normal attack by armor, parry, block, toughness, etc ?

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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#65 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:06 pm

sotora wrote:
Azarael wrote:
  • TE/SR to 500%, no longer undefendable.
What exactly do that mean? I just want to clarify. Heal since it's dependant on dmg - will be decreased like normal attack by armor, parry, block, toughness, etc ?
"Undefendable" means "unable to be blocked or parried". If an attack ignores both defense and armor/toughness, it has Raw typing.

sotora
Posts: 320

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#66 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:09 pm

Azarael wrote:
sotora wrote:
Azarael wrote:
  • TE/SR to 500%, no longer undefendable.
What exactly do that mean? I just want to clarify. Heal since it's dependant on dmg - will be decreased like normal attack by armor, parry, block, toughness, etc ?
"Undefendable" means "unable to be blocked or parried". If an attack ignores both defense and armor/toughness, it has Raw typing.
I see. Thanks for info.

Mystry
Suspended
Posts: 445

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#67 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:15 pm

Azarael wrote:
blaqwar wrote: Guard will no longer be allowed to affect the outcome of a lifetap's heal calculation. This means that even if Guard dissipates the damage from a lifetap, the lifetap's heal component will act as though it had hit. (It is a requirement that Guard not be allowed to f*ck up an entire school of healing by itself for undefendable to be lifted.)
I take this to mean to lifetap heals (like Divine Assault) will ignore Guard mechanics, acting as though the target was not guarded, but can be defended against normal defenses (block/parry/resists)?

With TE/SR going to 500%, I feel like the numbers for raw healing output will be good, but I am concerned by TE/SR and other melee heals being defendable.

Melee healing can and should have a higher output than backline healing due to the added risks involved in committing yourself to a melee fight. Particularly given Destros proclivity to have a large amount of tanks and few, if any, melee DPS, I forsee melee healing dropping off and not be used because of the lack of viable targets to attack to generate melee heals. Tanks will defend against all of a melee healers attack and render them useless, in addition to their vulnerability to CC's and focus fire.

Also unknown is what role taunts will play. Assuming taunts affect the output of melee heals (given that they reduce the damage of the WP to 70% of normal damage), it will FURTHER nerf melee healing, forcing the WP to attack a tank, who will then defend against all their abilities, and their healing output drops to nil.

I'm generalizing of course, but this is what has me concerned.

With these in mind, I would suggest the following:
Revert lifetap healing back to undefendable, but nerf the numbers on them. Alternatively, nerf their output via nerfing the Willpower buff that melee WP/DoK gets when attacking an enemy.
With lifetap healing being undefendable again, allow taunts to influence the amount of healing done. This will let tanks interfere with the WP/DoK via taunting to disrupt their healing capabilities, promoting skilled gameplay.

Regarding the 5 minute CD on switching to and from Righteousness, I have no comment of significance, beyond to say that many, even the majority I would argue, see WP as healer only, and like to complain at WPs who choose to deal damage. In the recent games I played while toying with experimental mode, I was practically bombarded with derisive variations of the comment "dps wp we lose", despite me mostly being in Devotion. I also don't see how hybrid specs would play into Righteousness, as the constant RF drain and running nature of melee fights prohibits a lot of casted healing.

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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#68 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:20 pm

Any attack that is undefendable cannot be defended by either Guard or the target.

Melee healing still has a higher potential output than backline healing, because it cannot be heal debuffed.

If referring to Challenge, state "Challenge", but yes, that's a consideration. We will have to see how it goes, but it may justify a complete reversion to 550%.

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Stmichael1989
Posts: 184

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#69 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:51 pm

Azarael wrote:I don't get the complaints about Sigmar's Shield. With SWI up, mine heals for about 250 every time the target takes direct damage. Against melee trains and other fast attackers, that can rapidly add up into 4 or 5k.
I can reliably get 4k health out of divine assault (4 1k ticks) whether or not my target is being focus fired. It also costs 25 less RF (25/second for 3 seconds vs 20/second for 5) and doesn't cost a mastery point.

It's definitely more useful than it used to be, but it falls in this awkward niche where it doesn't have enough uptime to float a target through focus fire and also lacks any other defining feature. If for some reason you don't want it to deal comparable damage to devour essence, I'd recommend that it cost 10 RF/second for 10 seconds and heal 25% less per tick. That way it functions more like a situational HoT rather than a burst heal.

As for SR/DA being defendable, I'm not a fan. Guard, detaunt, and challenge are things I can account for and make choices based on solid information. Missing a heal because of a block or parry isn't fun, it's downright frustrating.
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davispeed
Posts: 392

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#70 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:32 pm

Spoiler:
All those saying its a "good changes" are Orders; Coincidence????

NOT

The DOK are taking nerf after nerf since 1week. now its out of control. Simple.
Shitposting. If you have an actual point to make, make it, don't whine about a mandatory healer taking a K'W nerf - Azarael
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