Changelog 06/12/2016

[Akalukz]

Those +48 dodge and disrupt stack with rr points and gear i guess no? +80 dodge/disrupt incommin

But it seems to me, one good long punt and poof that's all gone. Not to mention the shortened range. Seems fitting that this buff/nerf comes with the Close quarter spec, this will allow more survivabilty in rift/magnet spec. Now we just need to get the magus an AoE heal

[Grunbag]

Those +48 dodge and disrupt stack with rr points and gear i guess no? +80 dodge/disrupt incommin

If this happen , just stand 30feet away from this engineer which is the max range for grenades with full flame turret buff and focus another's rdps .

[Osred]

an armor stacking engi has more armor than most fully geared tanks

No they do not.

[Morf]

an armor stacking engi has more armor than most fully geared tanks

No they do not.

Maybe you should check before commenting ? you realise flak jacket stacks with potions and engi also have an armor tactic ?
Armor stacking engi without using a potion has 3505 armor when using 124 armor talis and 134 armor tali in skaven jewl, a tank with full ruin armor slotting no armor talis has 3411, these are both before use of a potion.
So yes a def armor stacking engi will have more armor than most fully geared tanks, also bare in mind engi also has a keg and an abundance of CC, more CC than tanks.

[Grunbag]

an armor stacking engi has more armor than most fully geared tanks

No they do not.

Maybe you should check before commenting ? you realise flak jacket stacks with potions and engi also have an armor tactic ?
Armor stacking engi without using a potion has 3505 armor when using 124 armor talis and 134 armor tali in skaven jewl, a tank with full ruin armor slotting no armor talis has 3411, these are both before use of a potion.
So yes a def armor stacking engi will have more armor than most fully geared tanks, also bare in mind engi also has a keg and an abundance of CC, more CC than tanks.

Dunno how much amor a fully gear tank has But I guess they got more than 600 thoughness , Parry , blocking , also good dodge disrupt , wounds.
Def engineer has meant to be stationary in the melee , support other class and use his Cc , debuff etc . I don't see what's will be op as he won't makes tons of damages ?

[StormX2]

an armor stacking engi has more armor than most fully geared tanks

No they do not.

Maybe you should check before commenting ? you realise flak jacket stacks with potions and engi also have an armor tactic ?
Armor stacking engi without using a potion has 3505 armor when using 124 armor talis and 134 armor tali in skaven jewl, a tank with full ruin armor slotting no armor talis has 3411, these are both before use of a potion.
So yes a def armor stacking engi will have more armor than most fully geared tanks, also bare in mind engi also has a keg and an abundance of CC, more CC than tanks.

I think my Chosen is about 3600 unbuffed without the Winds Impervious set.

[Morf]

Dunno how much amor a fully gear tank has But I guess they got more than 600 thoughness , Parry , blocking , also good dodge disrupt , wounds.
Def engineer has meant to be stationary in the melee , support other class and use his Cc , debuff etc . I don't see what's will be op as he won't makes tons of damages ?

Depends on the class, if they have static toughness buffs and such.
My blorc which i consider to be well geared has full ruin and tough talis slotted, without login to be 100% accurate im sitting at around 650 toughness with 3.4k armor, very very similar to a def engi, ofc a tank brings more than just a def meat shield but thats not the point, point is a 48% dodge/disrupt boost is madness when a well played engi (especially def engi) weakness is magic damage, physical/melee damage is laughed at when you have a keg and def spec, i know this because i have played an engi like this, killing well geared sh's and finishing the fight with 90% hp, tanking and killing choppas and maraders with ease, sometimes even 2 at a time if done right, the threat is sorcs and magus as you cant mitigate the same sort of damage from resists as you can with armor.
Damage bonus isnt the issue, my def spec engi was sitting on tank level damage bonus, 200 odd bs and less ws but when you can put 6 dots on a target they will die, even more so as engi has alot of aoe damage, fluff damage sure but every little counts.

[Grunbag]

Dunno how much amor a fully gear tank has But I guess they got more than 600 thoughness , Parry , blocking , also good dodge disrupt , wounds.
Def engineer has meant to be stationary in the melee , support other class and use his Cc , debuff etc . I don't see what's will be op as he won't makes tons of damages ?

Depends on the class, if they have static toughness buffs and such.
My blorc which i consider to be well geared has full ruin and tough talis slotted, without login to be 100% accurate im sitting at around 650 toughness with 3.4k armor, very very similar to a def engi, ofc a tank brings more than just a def meat shield but thats not the point, point is a 48% dodge/disrupt boost is madness when a well played engi (especially def engi) weakness is magic damage, physical/melee damage is laughed at when you have a keg and def spec, i know this because i have played an engi like this, killing well geared sh's and finishing the fight with 90% hp, tanking and killing choppas and maraders with ease, sometimes even 2 at a time if done right, the threat is sorcs and magus as you cant mitigate the same sort of damage from resists as you can with armor.
Damage bonus isnt the issue, my def spec engi was sitting on tank level damage bonus, 200 odd bs and less ws but when you can put 6 dots on a target they will die, even more so as engi has alot of aoe damage, fluff damage sure but every little counts.

I agree with a lot of things you said . If we are talking for a one vs one (Mara/chopa/squig) a dad engi can win easily (not sure for squig now range from nerfed) . But on rvr wb or sc , aoe dmg of a def engineer is insignifiant for any good healer . I think this patch is good for many reasons : sniper got nerfed (10sec Cd) and many players asked for this .
Half-def grenadier lose the +40 % range they had with bombardment turret before so they have to move midrange .
Tinkerer got that's true a great dodge disrupt buff but they have now to be closer than ever to the enemy due to range debuff . To be more explicit : every destro that will stay more than 40 feets away from a tinkerer won't get any damage . It's easy then for any mdps to get out def engineer range or for any caster to stay far away from def engineer

[peterthepan3]

Any engineer that specs that tanky will not be a threat outside of solo roaming/1v1. At best, they'll be an annoyance (increased cast times, staggers, hard to kill) but they won't be putting out serious damage. It's a lol/solo spec.

[blaqwar]

Dunno how much amor a fully gear tank has But I guess they got more than 600 thoughness , Parry , blocking , also good dodge disrupt , wounds.
Def engineer has meant to be stationary in the melee , support other class and use his Cc , debuff etc . I don't see what's will be op as he won't makes tons of damages ?

Depends on the class, if they have static toughness buffs and such.
My blorc which i consider to be well geared has full ruin and tough talis slotted, without login to be 100% accurate im sitting at around 650 toughness with 3.4k armor, very very similar to a def engi, ofc a tank brings more than just a def meat shield but thats not the point, point is a 48% dodge/disrupt boost is madness when a well played engi (especially def engi) weakness is magic damage, physical/melee damage is laughed at when you have a keg and def spec, i know this because i have played an engi like this, killing well geared sh's and finishing the fight with 90% hp, tanking and killing choppas and maraders with ease, sometimes even 2 at a time if done right, the threat is sorcs and magus as you cant mitigate the same sort of damage from resists as you can with armor.
Damage bonus isnt the issue, my def spec engi was sitting on tank level damage bonus, 200 odd bs and less ws but when you can put 6 dots on a target they will die, even more so as engi has alot of aoe damage, fluff damage sure but every little counts.

This game is not and never will be balanced 1v1. You need to look at it from a group perspective.

An engi speccing tinkerer, stacking defensive stats and using flame turret basically turn into a support/CC class while soaking up damage and holding up a position. They suck if they have to move and their damage will NEVER be anything else than a little extra added pressure on the frontlines (especially considering the range nerf, RDPS can't easily hit them but the Engi can't hit them at all). This is in no way similar to what a tank provides, since they are mobile utility/defense batteries. Funnily enough, comparing them you should have realised that an easy counter to an entrenched engie post patch is a tank. HTL, KD, punt away from the turret and focus fire down is an easy way to deal with them.

This only opens up new and exciting ways to play the career, it doesn't add on top of the existing buffs to make the career OP. Iif anything such behaviour is now prevented with how exclusive turrets are. Not saying the numbers don't need to be tested and tweaked, simply stating that the concept is sound.