Gear "grind"

[Aurandilaz]

The Conq grind driving people off from T4 or playing also has positive side effects, thanks to lesser pop keep sieges are less laggy, so I can run high settings plus even keep crafting when attacking keep.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

To the ppl saying you dont need conq etc etc you are right but at the same time if certain aspects of the game frustrate you or the friends you use to play the game with no longer log in there are not many other reasons to log on other then to get the next armor set be it because you like the appearance, want the power increase or are some sort of completionist.

That sounds like a series of personal problems, that should have no bearing on game balance or price of gear. Go make some new friends. and I kinda doubt you would have any issue finding a group if you wanted too... I'll be your friend Morfee. Even if you are a dirty smelly gobbo...

Spoiler:

Its a thin line between a difficult grind and a grind that is difficult and unrealistically obtainable in a fair amount of play time, currently the grind is on the unrealistically obtainable side of things, i dont want an easy grind but i also dont want to see a grind where i cant be bothered to log in because the time it will take me to gear another char is so long.
As i said in a previous response just being able to convert medals/emblems up and down with a 1-5 and 5-1 rate would prolly be enough to make ppl like myself think they dont need to work a 2nd job to gear out a char.
Them 3-4 weeks i spent to get my shaman geared was done playing 6+ hours a day, some times going afk for an hour or so to not lose zone contribution during the 5+ hour zone fights, it was tiresome, at times was unenjoyable and then you get slapped by the rng, how would you feel playing hard for 6 hours, getting top contribution and rolling 20 or getting a gold bag to find the same piece you already have for the 4th time.

So... Let me get this straight. You played 6hrs a day, for 3-4 weeks. Lets call that 6x21(days)(assuming you take the occasional day off, and aren't actually clocking in to play as if at work). That's 126 hours. Now, I'm gonna ignore the AFK for an hour or more cause I am assuming that is a mistype, and that you aren't avoiding the AFK timer for that long, Ahem. But, you are not actively participating in really anything for hours on end. How many hours can remove from that 126? And why are you going afk? You can log out. Your contribution doesn't disappear right away. It takes more than an hour for that to happen. So if the zone is going to flip shortly, and you gotta go, you can and not lose anything but Inf.

But lets ignore all of that ok? call it 126 hrs for full conq. 6pieces of conq, that works out to 21hrs per piece. Now, if you are assuming that you spend 6hrs per day, that means every 3 days you get 1p of conq. Conq is end gear. Why is that such a terrible rate?

Now. Lets space it out to someone whom isn't hyper active. Lets drop that to an avg of 3hrs a day. At 21hrs per piece(your rate) thats 1p a week. That really aint so bad is it? Remember, this is taking YOUR time, which you say you got duplicates, had top contrib and rolled a 20, etc etc. So you had some bad luck, or at least avg luck.

The argument of, "I can't get top contrib if I only play for 3hrs! Whaaa!" is erroneous. You are COMPETING for top contribution with every other player in the zone. If you don't put in the same or greater time, effort, energy, then NO. You should NOT gain at the same rate.

Lastly on this part, if you continuously go AFK for hours just to keep your contribution, then you care far too much about the gear. More on that:

Spoiler:

Also ppl saying you can mix sets, conq jump isnt great etc etc, sure for non healers mixing sets is better but for pure healers conq is a big leap as you can see from this ss



When said and done respeccing and changing jewels i lost 1 level of resolute defense, tiny amount of willpower and 20 odd ini and gained all that tough,wounds, 3 heal crit, just over 1% reduce chance to be crit and the defense proc, i can certainly feel the increase and for players who are always striving for bis (which is alot of players) its a must.

So. God damnit Morfee, I like you. And you do stupid crap like this. HOW CAN YOU COMPARE 2 ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS?!?!(Edit: for the record, look at Morfee's Pic. He is showing 115 extra toughness and over 90+ wounds on that Shaman. Hence the math rage)

Put yourself in the SAME spec. the SAME jewels. Then swap out of Conq. THAT is the different between anni and conq. If you want to use entirely different gear and spec, thats on you. But you can't use that to demonstrate the different between anni and conq.

Spoiler:

According to THIS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 2053266822 These are the actual statistical differences between Conq and Anni for the Shaman. You're Welcome.

Chest +10 armor
+3 Willpower
+19 Toughness
-12 ini
-4 Wounds
3 AP Regen(same)

Shoulder +14 armor
-11 Willpower
-8 Toughness
+20 Wounds
2% Dodge(lose the 3% crit reduc)

Helm +9 armor
+3 Willpower
+2 Toughness
-1 Wounds
2% Reduce Armor Pen(lose 2% disrupt)

Gloves +12
-2 Willpower
+4 Toughness
+1 Wounds
2% Disrupt
-16 ini

Boots +12
+2 Willpower
+6 Wounds
+10 Initiative
-10 toughness
3% Heal Crit
-2% dodge.

Belt
18 Willpower
6 Wounds
12 Initiative
36 Healing Power
74 Spirit Resist
77 Elem Resist
83 Corp Resist

Ignoring the belt, cause I dunno what you had on previously, and the piece bonus', cause again, my claim is that mix and matching is actually better(also the Piece bonus' differ so drastically between classes. Some are great, others are useless), here is the TOTAL DIFFERENCE: -5 WP, +17 toughness, -2 Initiative, +22 wounds, 0% diff in dodge, 0% diff in disrupt, you lose 3% crit reduction, gain +3% crit, and +2% reduced armor pen. Oh, and a GRAND TOTAL of 57 armor.

Sorry dude. But you played funny math there. No. The difference between Conq and Anni is negligable. If you feel the need to grind that many hours to get the loot, that is on YOU.


Edit: Lastly... If you are striving for BiS THAT much. Then gear and the numbers are really all you care about. That means what? That once you attain the BiS, what else is there for you? If you got all that gear in 4 days... Would you of played the other 122hrs in 3-4 weeks? If so, then allow me to repeat myself. Ignore the Gear, and just play for the fun of it. If not, then you honestly ONLY care about the gear, and therefore the grind is REQUIRED to just keep you even playing. And besides... ****, just look at Domantis. Got fully wiped, and was RECKING people in full Ruin. The gear you are wearing is not that big of a deal in RoR. RR matters far more imo...

TLDR: Math.

[Sulorie]

To wait a lengthy amount of days just to be on a even playing field feels flawed and time consuming,

But your statement is totally wrong as you don't need them to be competitive. The previous tier of items is only slightly weaker.
Don't let gear be an excuse for anything.

[Acidic]

The problem with conq gear from my side is not being competitive, it's actually follows the majority of the posters. That is the medallions and keep bag system is not warband friendly, it's not enhancing game play. It tries to enforce a play style I do not play. The rng for the most just gives a negative feeling of loosing rolls .
This system has directly lead to me stopping playing.
This is not about I have or don't have gear this has to do with the system produces negative feelings which is not what I want from a GAME.

[Cimba]

Spoiler:

Also ppl saying you can mix sets, conq jump isnt great etc etc, sure for non healers mixing sets is better but for pure healers conq is a big leap as you can see from this ss



When said and done respeccing and changing jewels i lost 1 level of resolute defense, tiny amount of willpower and 20 odd ini and gained all that tough,wounds, 3 heal crit, just over 1% reduce chance to be crit and the defense proc, i can certainly feel the increase and for players who are always striving for bis (which is alot of players) its a must.

So. God damnit Morfee, I like you. And you do stupid crap like this. HOW CAN YOU COMPARE 2 ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS?!?!(Edit: for the record, look at Morfee's Pic. He is showing 115 extra toughness and over 90+ wounds on that Shaman. Hence the math rage)

Put yourself in the SAME spec. the SAME jewels. Then swap out of Conq. THAT is the different between anni and conq. If you want to use entirely different gear and spec, thats on you. But you can't use that to demonstrate the different between anni and conq.

He kept is primary attribute (Willpower) nearly constant and reallocated the resources that opened up into his secondary attributes (thoughness, wounds). He maintains his healing output while having drastically boosted his defense. That's actually how you do a comparison.

What you're suggesting is just flat out ridiculous. As an example on BW the triple int (Ruin,BL,Conq) doesn't look to bad as an alternative to merc and interim solution until 4pc conq. With your approach it would be terrible because it would drive you way over the int softcap making it highly inefficient if jewelry, talisman, renown spec isn't adjusted.

Spoiler:

According to THIS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 2053266822 These are the actual statistical differences between Conq and Anni for the Shaman. You're Welcome.

Chest +10 armor
+3 Willpower
+19 Toughness
-12 ini
-4 Wounds
3 AP Regen(same)

Shoulder +14 armor
-11 Willpower
-8 Toughness
+20 Wounds
2% Dodge(lose the 3% crit reduc)

Helm +9 armor
+3 Willpower
+2 Toughness
-1 Wounds
2% Reduce Armor Pen(lose 2% disrupt)

Gloves +12
-2 Willpower
+4 Toughness
+1 Wounds
2% Disrupt
-16 ini

Boots +12
+2 Willpower
+6 Wounds
+10 Initiative
-10 toughness
3% Heal Crit
-2% dodge.

Belt
18 Willpower
6 Wounds
12 Initiative
36 Healing Power
74 Spirit Resist
77 Elem Resist
83 Corp Resist

Ignoring the belt, cause I dunno what you had on previously, and the piece bonus', cause again, my claim is that mix and matching is actually better(also the Piece bonus' differ so drastically between classes. Some are great, others are useless), here is the TOTAL DIFFERENCE: -5 WP, +17 toughness, -2 Initiative, +22 wounds, 0% diff in dodge, 0% diff in disrupt, you lose 3% crit reduction, gain +3% crit, and +2% reduced armor pen. Oh, and a GRAND TOTAL of 57 armor.

Sorry dude. But you played funny math there. No. The difference between Conq and Anni is negligable. If you feel the need to grind that many hours to get the loot, that is on YOU.

That actually made my day Claiming funny math but then ignoring set boni in their own comparison. One could think you're ignoring the data that doesn't support your argument.

[Morf]

I was trying to quote ya Dabbart but so many spoilers made my spoiler of your post fail so meh, anyway without spamming so much there are a few key points, old guildies dont play, game has balance and rvr mechanics problems that frustrate me, rng and gear takes a long time to collect, i put aside all these issues i have because the new gear was something i wanted to get on my shaman because its the only shaman set that i like the appearance of and it grants more power.

As for time it took, 6 hours + was 8/10 hour "shifts" at times i would log on at 3pm and not log off to 2am, going afk to cook/eat, watch my daily tv programs etc etc, coming back to the screen to replant seeds or take advantage of any quick contribution boosts, its no secret most ppl do this type of afk, no automated **** just taking a break or doing stuff while still logged in, it was hard work and exhausting, no way im doing it again.

I dont know how you come to that value on sets, i didnt change a bunch of stuff, 2 jewels and renown spec change, i gained alot more then i lost just took some reallocation of stuff, it is certainly more than 2 high end talis which was claimed to be the difference when i last made a fuss about conq sets.

Lastly im the type of player who wants a carrot to work towards, someone who will do the hard work first so that when done i can go back to playing for fun first instead of contribution/gear 1st and fun 2nd, lets face it how many times have players put aside what would be more fun to do something that would help there contribution, i mean many a time doing so you are not just fighting the other realm but your own realm, be it spamming the supply as fast as possible or trying to steal a kill from 2 guys fighting each other, currently its not a healthy environment.

I know im not alone in feeling the way i do, minority ? possibly but i believe its important to listen to reasons and criticism of systems in order to make stuff better and improve.

Also tnx for the offer to be my friend put i dont play with bads.

Spoiler:

bad joke, english humour for ya

[Odaop]

But your statement is totally wrong as you don't need them to be competitive. The previous tier of items is only slightly weaker.
Don't let gear be an excuse for anything.

It's a game though for christ sake and I'm not using it as an excuse to not be competitive, it shouldn't be a life investment to get them. No matter how little stats they are, they matter. This thread is about the grind it takes to get that said gear, not if I can be competitive or not.

The only reason a game like wow for example would have a grind like that is so you kept up your month sub to play it. It doesn't make sense here, people are going to play the game they enjoy regardless of the grind or not. So if you're trying to keep people here by making them strive for gear that take a long time to get, you're not keeping them here for simply the enjoyment of the game.

The random amount of medallions could be set lower and you'd still have to play a lot.

[Sulorie]

How about you don't farm/grind/play to get conq/dom and just play for the fun of it and eventually you will have those items some day.

I wouldn't care if you could buy certain item tiers for gold, like on live but it is different here and only the highest tier has inflated prices.

[Nefarian78]

Lastly im the type of player who wants a carrot to work towards, someone who will do the hard work first so that when done i can go back to playing for fun first instead of contribution/gear 1st and fun 2nd

Actually i think the majority of the players are just like you, including me. Players need the "carrot on a stick" but if said carrot is miles away those players quickly lose interest in the carrot because they know they will NEVER reach it or take a stupid amount of time to get it, and that caused MANY players to leave the server, sometimes for good.

That's what happened to 95% of my friendlist. From having 12-15 people online at all times to having 4-5 friends a week after the new gear released to having 1-2 that rarely log in now. most of these friends told me that they were leaving because the game is turning into a Korean grindfest, and they aren't completely wrong. There's a thin line between "carrot on a stick" and "carrot on a 10 miles long stick" what's happening now it's the latter. i myself quit the game and recently came back and to just take the scenario helmet it took me 5 days of being a mindless guard-bot for mdps in SCs and getting roflstomped by premades (guild died, no friends online so the only way for me to play atm is pugging).

I'm completely ok to have to work for the things i need (and i want to) but i'm quickly losing interest in the game once more. There's no need to reduce the prices, but some improvements NEED to be made. Why not add boots/gloves drops from kills in Scenarios? most people already have those 2 pieces anyway and the excuse of "it would be too fast compared to rvr" is gone since there are tons of people with full RvR gear. Up and down scaling medalions could also be a great improvement without making the gear grind too easy. Maybe even a daily or weekly quest that rewards you a few medalions or emblems. the players need to feel they are making progress towards getting a new pieces or whatever they are working for. even if it's a small thing it still helps let the player feel they are making some progress.

There's also the current RvR system that makes you fight your own realm for contrib, and after long hours of fighting your own realm and the enemy realm you get rewarded with top contrib and with a good roll just to have everything crashing down on you with a bag containing Rnjesus shouting "NOPE NO LOOT FOR YOU" and a piece you either do not need or a piece you already have (just like what happened to me more than once) Why not have bags drop tokens that let you choose what piece of gear you want? with different tokens for different prices. It's less rng, which helps players stick to the game.

RvR atm reminds me of early Diablo 3. After hours and hours of farming you drop a legendary item, you identify it just to see it's a piece of garbage. Diablo 3 then improved, with ways to alleviate the rng (Kadala, Kanai's Cube rerolls) but RoR seems to go straight in that direction.
Moral of the story? RNG is pain and suffering. Not a single person i know likes rng. Every one of them prefers a steady (and slower maybe) journey that has the assurance that at the end of it you WILL have what you worked for and that your efforts WILL be rewarded.

Tldr: The carrot on a stick method works if the players FEEL they can reach said carrot (which isn't happening in most cases) and RNG is only pain and suffering for everyone. Steady but maybe slower journey is better than rng (at least for me and the people i know)

[Elftwin95]

I would just like yo say Nefarian, that you have pinpointed the exact feelings I have been having. So I wholeheartedly agree with your post and opinion.