[Discussion/Feedback] The Armor Project

[th3gatekeeper]

The armor debuff can be cleansed.

The difference between not stacking armor and stacking armor after a debuff is massive.
Not stacking armor and you're at 5% mitigration from armor, while with it ir's around 25%.

So when you add to the fact that the armor debuff can also be cleansed away it's just better then everything else.
and NOT due to it overpeforms, but the fact that the other ones are ineffective

so your goal is to increase TTK and make everything way more tanky then? Because it seems thats what you are advocating for?

I would argue that in small scale battles TTK is fine OR needs to be decreased. In large scale battles TTK is too short and should be increased.

I think increasing TTK and "tankiness" would be a wrong move and make the game more boring (in general).

Also I think there are many "light armor" classes that are FAR too tanky for what they should be. Just IMO.

Assume your 25% and 5% holds true.

6k HP @ 25% mitigation = 8k
vs 6k HP @ 5% = 6,315k

So even AFTER armor debuff and ARP... armor is providing the equivalent of 170 Wounds? For 1 pot and armor talis? And this doesnt seem "over performing" to you?

Stats should be able to be "countered" by other stats.

If even AFTER debuffs and ARP, you can get the value of 170 stats from 1 "stat area" that (to me) screams over performance.

[th3gatekeeper]

I do on my cloth healers.
Moast ORVR dps with good gear does aswell.

So then whats the issue? You get 1 decent armor debuff throw on you and your already at 0 armor... So you shouldnt have any worries or objections to changing how armor and ARP work then?

[roadkillrobin]

I do almoast exclusivly ORVR so thats why i'm stacking wounds.
Small scale is a completly different thing.

I think TTK needs to go up in this game for sure. People get nuked in the realm of 2 timestams while being CC'd. There is just no reaction to that.

And also DoK/WP just doesn't function without stacking armor as you need to use melee attacks every now and then.

[Bozzax]

I had 1k-ish toughness on live worked much better then armor (dok)

[K13R]

I had 1k-ish toughness on live worked much better then armor (dok)

Not sure after but prior to rr increase the standard was 400 tougness 800 willpower armor think it got around 80% or so mitigation rest in wounds. There was a long post about on the official

[th3gatekeeper]

I do almoast exclusivly ORVR so thats why i'm stacking wounds.
Small scale is a completly different thing.

I think TTK needs to go up in this game for sure. People get nuked in the realm of 2 timestams while being CC'd. There is just no reaction to that.

And also DoK/WP just doesn't function without stacking armor as you need to use melee attacks every now and then.

Yeah this is what I was saying. In SCs/small scale the TTK might actually be too long.. Where as RVR its too short.

This is why I was suggesting having Field of Glory giving a boost to stats - such as Wounds/Tough/Ini, etc. To increase TTK... but small scale, TTK is already sometimes frustrating. Heck, I remember the days I went max STR/WS with focused offense, etc. on a 2H tank (basically full damage) and did a DPS test against a backline healer (I think it was a WP or AM) and they could completely ignore my damage.

I think this is the problem with PVP games that have both small and large scale battles. When you get 50 on 50, if you called out a target, the TTK is basically merely the time it takes X people to target you and cast 1 ability.

But I dont think armor is the solution and I dont think buffing other stats so they are as OP as armor is a good solution either... Especially considering most RVR is RDPS and most RDPS (from what I know) isnt physical...

I think there is a reason Az says this:

there's a defensive stat that actually needs bringing into line, and that stat sure ain't Toughness (hint: it's armor)

And not "there are defensive stats that need to be brought up to the level of armor". Armor over-excels in that, you can "shut down" that TYPE of damage.

If armor wasnt OP or isnt... then you wouldnt object to making resists cap at 75% as well - to match and then having tali's that boost ALL resists. Youll see people QQ all over the forums that they cant kill anything because people are over stacking resists...

So if that is your aim - increase TTK - then thats a great way to do it! Move resist cap to 75%. Then all the "non phys" damage will operate the same way, and people will have their damage halved by resist stacking players and never be able to kill anything unless its RVR where you can have 10 people+ focus 1 target in which youll still get dropped in 1-2 GCDs through sheer #s

[K13R]

I do almoast exclusivly ORVR so thats why i'm stacking wounds.
Small scale is a completly different thing.

I think TTK needs to go up in this game for sure. People get nuked in the realm of 2 timestams while being CC'd. There is just no reaction to that.

And also DoK/WP just doesn't function without stacking armor as you need to use melee attacks every now and then.

Yeah this is what I was saying. In SCs/small scale the TTK might actually be too long.. Where as RVR its too short.

This is why I was suggesting having Field of Glory giving a boost to stats - such as Wounds/Tough/Ini, etc. To increase TTK... but small scale, TTK is already sometimes frustrating. Heck, I remember the days I went max STR/WS with focused offense, etc. on a 2H tank (basically full damage) and did a DPS test against a backline healer (I think it was a WP or AM) and they could completely ignore my damage.

I think this is the problem with PVP games that have both small and large scale battles. When you get 50 on 50, if you called out a target, the TTK is basically merely the time it takes X people to target you and cast 1 ability.

But I dont think armor is the solution and I dont think buffing other stats so they are as OP as armor is a good solution either... Especially considering most RVR is RDPS and most RDPS (from what I know) isnt physical...

I think there is a reason Az says this:

there's a defensive stat that actually needs bringing into line, and that stat sure ain't Toughness (hint: it's armor)

And not "there are defensive stats that need to be brought up to the level of armor". Armor over-excels in that, you can "shut down" that TYPE of damage.

If armor wasnt OP or isnt... then you wouldnt object to making resists cap at 75% as well - to match and then having tali's that boost ALL resists. Youll see people QQ all over the forums that they cant kill anything because people are over stacking resists...

So if that is your aim - increase TTK - then thats a great way to do it! Move resist cap to 75%. Then all the "non phys" damage will operate the same way, and people will have their damage halved by resist stacking players and never be able to kill anything unless its RVR where you can have 10 people+ focus 1 target in which youll still get dropped in 1-2 GCDs through sheer #s

That's always neen the issue.. Warhammer changed early in its cycle it was warband on warband /sc only no open rvr no little 6 man premade/roamers or 6 v 6 out in some locked zone.

Players brought 6 v 6 meta it wasnt in tge designs of the game originally

[th3gatekeeper]

I had 1k-ish toughness on live worked much better then armor (dok)

Ok, this is cool and all, but this addresses nothing.

it takes you 1k worth of stats to get to 1k toughness right?

If you drank armor pot (which you can still drink toughness pot) + 2200 base armor + how many talis?

Lets say you had 6 +150 armor talis. This takes the place of maybe +22 toughness talis?

So assuming you got 1k tough. You could STILL get 868 toughness AND still have nearly 4k armor....

So I dont see how this does anything or adds anything to this conversation. Plus I get for those Talis (6) you would have a MUCH better return on tankiness using them for armor rather than having ~132 more toughness...

This type of thing just proves your insincereroty here... Acting as if you can get 1k toughness VERSUS stacking armor... They are not mutually exclusive stats... In many cases.

[roadkillrobin]

I do almoast exclusivly ORVR so thats why i'm stacking wounds.
Small scale is a completly different thing.

I think TTK needs to go up in this game for sure. People get nuked in the realm of 2 timestams while being CC'd. There is just no reaction to that.

And also DoK/WP just doesn't function without stacking armor as you need to use melee attacks every now and then.

Yeah this is what I was saying. In SCs/small scale the TTK might actually be too long.. Where as RVR its too short.

This is why I was suggesting having Field of Glory giving a boost to stats - such as Wounds/Tough/Ini, etc. To increase TTK... but small scale, TTK is already sometimes frustrating. Heck, I remember the days I went max STR/WS with focused offense, etc. on a 2H tank (basically full damage) and did a DPS test against a backline healer (I think it was a WP or AM) and they could completely ignore my damage.

I think this is the problem with PVP games that have both small and large scale battles. When you get 50 on 50, if you called out a target, the TTK is basically merely the time it takes X people to target you and cast 1 ability.

But I dont think armor is the solution and I dont think buffing other stats so they are as OP as armor is a good solution either... Especially considering most RVR is RDPS and most RDPS (from what I know) isnt physical...

I think there is a reason Az says this:

there's a defensive stat that actually needs bringing into line, and that stat sure ain't Toughness (hint: it's armor)

And not "there are defensive stats that need to be brought up to the level of armor". Armor over-excels in that, you can "shut down" that TYPE of damage.

If armor wasnt OP or isnt... then you wouldnt object to making resists cap at 75% as well - to match and then having tali's that boost ALL resists. Youll see people QQ all over the forums that they cant kill anything because people are over stacking resists...

So if that is your aim - increase TTK - then thats a great way to do it! Move resist cap to 75%. Then all the "non phys" damage will operate the same way, and people will have their damage halved by resist stacking players and never be able to kill anything unless its RVR where you can have 10 people+ focus 1 target in which youll still get dropped in 1-2 GCDs through sheer #s

The reaon why you stack Wounds in RVR is coz of morales. No other reason. I would spec for armor if it weren't for morales. Then Crit reduction.

I don't agree with Az at all on this point. Armor was an issue on live due to gear allowing it to go way over what was healthy aswell as Trivial Blows keeping crit in check.
On RoR we don't have those armor numbers and we don't have Trivial Blows and we see what happens without it. Melee train killing people in 2 GCD in small scale. CC and dead. Thats basicly like not allowing people to play. the game and that by far more boring then longer TTK. Burst dmg is totally out of controll.

I would be completly on board on allowing 75% magic dmg caps if Willpower would be used as a Magic dmg pen btw.

[Bozzax]

I had 1k-ish toughness on live worked much better then armor (dok)

Ok, this is cool and all, but this addresses nothing.

it takes you 1k worth of stats to get to 1k toughness right?

If you drank armor pot (which you can still drink toughness pot) + 2200 base armor + how many talis?

Lets say you had 6 +150 armor talis. This takes the place of maybe +22 toughness talis?

So assuming you got 1k tough. You could STILL get 868 toughness AND still have nearly 4k armor....

So I dont see how this does anything or adds anything to this conversation. Plus I get for those Talis (6) you would have a MUCH better return on tankiness using them for armor rather than having ~132 more toughness...

This type of thing just proves your insincereroty here... Acting as if you can get 1k toughness VERSUS stacking armor... They are not mutually exclusive stats... In many cases.

More is more and yes every tally was +toughness and yes I replaced +150 armor tallies to improve my def

Hint toughness is even better on ror I suggest you try it out