TheoryCraft [Tanks Balance]

[Sulorie]

Do you know what could actually be awesome?? Change the Hitboxes once and for all so the Orcs dont block healers from targeting-clicking allies!! That would be a great AND NECESSARY change!!

Use your UI to click players.
In the current state of game it might be a problem but I don't see a reason to change anything based on non-implemented features.

[Ototo]

Do you know what could actually be awesome?? Change the Hitboxes once and for all so the Orcs dont block healers from targeting-clicking allies!! That would be a great AND NECESSARY change!!

Use your UI to click players.
In the current state of game it might be a problem but I don't see a reason to change anything based on non-implemented features.

I dont get what u say by "Use your UI to click players.". They cant be clickeable if they are inside the body of other character. If u found a way, please, share the love.

I "circle allies", has it setted in E, and "circle enemies" in Q, and nearly allways works fine, BUT like 90% of the healers use right now click-on-target, so when u are gangbanged by 2 or more Orcs, u are guaranteed to get no heals. Orc players know this and purposely hide u inside their body, at least the average ones. Also the reason why we see this astonishing number of the two sub-par Orkish classes. They arent magically better than in live, they just give an unfair advantage, that in 75% of the situations means no-heals-at-all on ur target. Having to fight the zerg AND paying attention that u can be clickeable is the mark of a decent situational awardness player right now. All this in the end comes to the trouble of group UI in scenarios, but also to the damn stupidly little hitboxes of orcs being, by far, the most huge body archetype.

[Sulorie]

I dont get what u say by "Use your UI to click players.". They cant be clickeable if they are inside the body of other character. If u found a way, please, share the love.

I mean when the group UI is working, then you don't have to change anything. Furthermore it is only a problem in SC currently. The addon "Targets" helps to list wounded players.

[Bozzax]

em why you compare a class skill with renow skill when the SM skill buf for the 25% value and that is the correct mirror?

Mmm true SMs has this but with 1/3 duration (5s). However I did reply to a post that made a connection between the two (Chosen parry and KOTBs dodge).

When they redesigned Renown Abilities I assume* they tried to weigh in how effective the different defensive skills were. Thus looking at 20pts Defender and 20 pts Reflexes gives a hint on how they rated the skills. Spending the same renown I either get 1.8% parry or 1% block (or 1% disrupt for that matter)

Assuming they knew what they were doing and if we want the Chosen and KOTBs defensive parry/block skills to be of similar strength one either make the chosen parry 18% or the KOTBs block 14%

* Sounds strange doesn't it but I think they needed the skills to be roughly equally attractive/effective

[noisestorm]

Id rather get the defenses equally low, than equally high. Since tanks never had the problem with too little def against mdps, it would be better to balance them at lower levels, since we dont want the powercreep to ensue.

[Bozzax]

Id rather get the defenses equally low, than equally high. Since tanks never had the problem with too little def against mdps, it would be better to balance them at lower levels, since we dont want the powercreep to ensue.

Tesq has a point SM has it +25% duration should be 10s + though

[Tesq]

@Bozzax

What dodge? kobs have only a disrupt tactic and block skill
SM have a +15% to block, a+25% parry that last 5 sec and + 50% parry/dodge/disrupt from the 2h "hold the line" for a total of 75% to parry that's why the +25% buff last only 5 seconds.
Shield SM can buff block, so no use for even more parry / viceversa 2h tank can have a 75% parry dodge and disrupt if need.

chosen have a +25% that last 10 sec and also another 25% buff from tactic (and btw it need to be slot in a tactic and last 5 sec furthermore it require block and chosen have only base block). SM can be better at defense with out take any slot while chosen def are better passively but take 1 slot (edit: that's why touch power from the god would be an error, that's the only way how chosen get in pair with SM def using hold the line).

You should remember that there isn't in game a thing like parry rating as for the shield. So the chosen go from a 50% to a 70% of parry while most of tank can have a 75% directly to block.
All def get ingore by some % from strengh and there are skill in game that debuff them ( 50% from choppa/slayer 10 sec debuff). Also order dps have easy acces to those things while destru lack of it. So chosen bad defense are fill with an armor and damage reduction (15%). I found it great balance it indeed. Just i would like to point out that chosen cannot remove from slayer rampage so make 2 count how much thos good def would be usefull ^^

@noise
You will just cause them to die in PVE dungeon, even have a 100% block rate cannot prevent you from being hit by side and behind on rvr. High def where never an issue unless united with high damage (chosen ravage was alredy nerfed for this but there are other classes exemple), they are required to make tanks good in zerg situation; remember that tanks get even guard damage ---->so low def mean even more damage. Remember to alway think to balance tank defense for mass zerg situation. While indeed heal and dps need to have a lower scaling for any classes. Also dps/healer have to just raise 2-3 stats, tank have to raise tough, resistence, armor, block etc to be tanky with out count that they need to make some damage for assist. That's why they all have a high buff to defense. Their role is more coplex and various stats wise. (edit: that's the difference from gw2 squigs tank and warhammer tanks)

BG is a good exemple of what i refer for the pve side. He have some def issue when tanking bosses. Because his defense (skills side) work around a 30 sec rotation when only for 10 sec they have buff to block. Absorb and crit reduction take the other 20 sec but on pve these things count zero when you get 3k of auto attacks from bosses.
that's why those 2 skill from IB/BG would benefith a lot more both if they get changed to parry for 5 sec instead parry 4 hits (IB would benefith as 2h tank).


If you refer to solo def tank being hard to kill on rvr there are morals, so no solo tank are immune to that, also spec to be def mean that you will just cc or buff party and bring not dps support when focus. It's just something that kobs and chosen can do. And it work fine for chosen as it do not buff party exept from aura, while this is not valid for kobs. Obviusly there are other issue related to group utility, but they are not related to the class internal balance but more to a realm balance. Chosen internal balance is fine. Like there are most of classes in game. What need a look are
"realm internal balance" and "realm vs realm balance".

[Bozzax]

@Bozzax

What dodge?]

Block ... was tired

Any mechanic skill needs to be 10+ as it otherwise is spamskill

[Tesq]

About kobs it's def rotation are of 30 sec like BG but
10 sec armor buff
10 sec damage debuff (and it's a 50% damage debuff so no buff to kobs block thx. You cannot just compare chosen def rotation with kobs def rotation at all they are completly different :/)
10 sec free/empty/hold the line /cc/whatever

The correct archtype for mirror are

off/def rotation are
SM/CH
KOBS/BG
BO/IB

for meccanic
CH/KOBS
SM/BO
BG/IB

tactic related
CH/IB
BO/KOBS
BG/SM

This is like officialy the balance should have handle tankwise.