Changelog 23/08/16

[Dalgrimar]

EC is so much better than CW

[sanii]

EC is so much better than CW

EC has the problem of being quite cancerous for any range comps (esp. with invisible walls) , while CW has the problem of having guards.

The best solution in my opinion would be to either drastically reduce aggro range on guards (to not aggro down the hill) in CW or to remove them in its entirety.

[peterthepan3]

Remove guards in CW and gg

[Jaycub]

CW doesn't need guards, you spawn on an elevated platform which you can completely LoS from while your group resets.

Spawn camping shouldn't be a problem in any proper 6v6 (coordinated groups) "hey guys lets reset don't go out or stand on the edge plz".


EC would be fun as like a 12v12 SC w/ the portals to other areas working :^)

[Jail]

EC is nice yes, but can still get punted :/

[sanii]

CW doesn't need guards, you spawn on an elevated platform which you can completely LoS from while your group resets.

Spawn camping shouldn't be a problem in any proper 6v6 (coordinated groups) "hey guys lets reset don't go out or stand on the edge plz".

Exactly this !

Also looking forward to that new EC !
Cheers for the Effort

[Morbidmind]

Isn't the solution here that if you're running a boom premade, just don't que up for EC? EC is a ton of fun, especially in its live state and if you disagree, you're a no fun haver who doesn't enjoy watching dwarfs sail across the sky to their death.

[Penril]

Whenever pugs or solo players complain about a certain SC, premade players (myself included) usually reply with "just blacklist it". When it is them the ones who dislike a SC? "put some damn walls in this SC, punting does not represent my true skill!!!".

CW is back, and will be made permanent. I see no reason why EC should have an invisible wall (when it comes back in the future). IMHO it should be changed back as to how it was on live, and those who dislike it can simply BLACKLIST it.

[Danielle]

CW doesn't need guards, you spawn on an elevated platform which you can completely LoS from while your group resets.

Spawn camping shouldn't be a problem in any proper 6v6 (coordinated groups) "hey guys lets reset don't go out or stand on the edge plz".

Exactly this !

Also looking forward to that new EC !
Cheers for the Effort

Players dont need to spawncamp either and CW is still available to "regular" players so deal with it.

I understand why you don't want spawncaming and I don't think anyone wants spawncamping to be rampant in CW either. I even saw 6 mans in EC allowing the enemy to come up the large platform in the middle and not camping portals out of principle and manners, to get a good fight. However I don't think the issue have with the guards is that people want to spawncamp. I think the reason people including myself dislike the guards, is that a fight can start at the point and the player who takes too much damage naturally starts kiting backwards together with his team. Furthermore if a player dies and resurrects are attempted or failed this prompts further retreats backwards (which is generally towards the spawn). Given that the spawns are relatively close to the point where the fight begins, the spawn is reached relatively fast by the group who has to go on the defensive. Once the losing group reaches the spawn, the advantage turns to them, because there are places the attacking team can't go, because they will get insta-killed by guards.

Ignore the enemy and capture the objective if they start retreating even slightly could be your counter-argument to this. The problem with that is, that in any fight you will lose all advantage by turning around, and you will also expose yourself by attempting to kite backwards.

Basically the problem with the guards is that they are a way too easy reset for any fight momentum, and they make the fights in CW much worse. If the agro-range of the guards would be restricted to the top of the hill, the guards removed or a clickable wall like in Grovod Caverns back on live introduced this would be make fights in CW a whole lot better imo. Restricting the agro range or introducing a clickable wall prevents the spawn camp, whilst removing the guard problem, removing the guards would be a fast and lazy solution, but likely most people would still find it better than how the guards are at the moment.

[Danielle]

Players dont need to spawncamp either and CW is still available to "regular" players so deal with it.

I understand why you don't want spawncaming and I don't think anyone wants spawncamping to be rampant in CW either. I even saw 6 mans in EC allowing the enemy to come up the large platform in the middle and not camping portals out of principle and manners, to get a good fight. However I don't think the issue have with the guards is that people want to spawncamp. I think the reason people including myself dislike the guards, is that a fight can start at the point and the player who takes too much damage naturally starts kiting backwards together with his team. Furthermore if a player dies and resurrects are attempted or failed this prompts further retreats backwards (which is generally towards the spawn). Given that the spawns are relatively close to the point where the fight begins, the spawn is reached relatively fast by the group who has to go on the defensive. Once the losing group reaches the spawn, the advantage turns to them, because there are places the attacking team can't go, because they will get insta-killed by guards.

Ignore the enemy and capture the objective if they start retreating even slightly could be your counter-argument to this. The problem with that is, that in any fight you will lose all advantage by turning around, and you will also expose yourself by attempting to kite backwards.

Basically the problem with the guards is that they are a way too easy reset for any fight momentum, and they make the fights in CW much worse. If the agro-range of the guards would be restricted to the top of the hill, the guards removed or a clickable wall like in Grovod Caverns back on live introduced this would be make fights in CW a whole lot better imo. Restricting the agro range or introducing a clickable wall prevents the spawn camp, whilst removing the guard problem, removing the guards would be a fast and lazy solution, but likely most people would still find it better than how the guards are at the moment.

You can get literally right up against the wall in cw, I provided screenshots last time it was cried about.

Such is life, its a scenario, find a big open patch of empty ground with no guards to go to otherwise and pre arrange your own stuff.

Alright, you got me intrigued there. Personally I think the limits on the guard agro are not as low as you suggest, but unlike you I don't have screenshots. So next time I get in Caledor Woods and we or the other team give up I will make sure to give it a go and make a recording of how far the guard agrro range goes; then there will be no need for a discussion as you are right, or we can resume the discussion in a feedback thread with new data.