Gear "grind"

[flintboth]

I respect all the development of the game but I can't understand and finaly I can't accept the large gap of differences between players characters on the differents Tiers, the T4 in first.
The power of gears, the high difference between the gears is too much, combined with the great difference between the levels.
This is too much differences between players characters for one Tier, you are forced to spend many time in craft/farm to have a chance to have a good balanced battle and fun in game, that drive many players out of the game.
Many have just stop thinking in terms of battle strategy or push for The beauty of the confrontation, the challenge... they are just calculating how to leech (a bag, some medallons, rewards... for gears) or how to exploit a NPC, blobing or switch realming... All this deviance in a game drive a players to become a farmer on the RvR, without consideration for the fun of the battle (Warhammer Online was disigned for the RvR first not the PvE). This is killing the battle (RvR and PvP) and this is encouraged by the too high importance of the gears in first, in my opinion.
And importance of gears is real on Return of Reckoning RvR, too real for me; look at the scenarios they was not so expeditives in the past as they are today and in majority they was more fun. This is not fun for a new players.
I don't preach for an easy game, I just ask to have the Tiers well balanced for the respect of players and for the continuity of the battle. New players are the key of the future for a good and fresh battle game, do not suck the lifeblood out of them (too much).
You can make more differents gears/weapons in terms of specialisations (healer dps or tanky...) but give more power... this disbalance the game and kill the fun; A Tier must be equilibrated between players, I do not say equal, I just say that the most importants differences must come from the game play/positioning in first, more than the gears/weapons, that is where the fun and the challenge are. .

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

He kept is primary attribute (Willpower) nearly constant and reallocated the resources that opened up into his secondary attributes (thoughness, wounds). He maintains his healing output while having drastically boosted his defense. That's actually how you do a comparison.

What you're suggesting is just flat out ridiculous. As an example on BW the triple int (Ruin,BL,Conq) doesn't look to bad as an alternative to merc and interim solution until 4pc conq. With your approach it would be terrible because it would drive you way over the int softcap making it highly inefficient if jewelry, talisman, renown spec isn't adjusted.

That actually made my day Claiming funny math but then ignoring set boni in their own comparison. One could think you're ignoring the data that doesn't support your argument.

Ahem. First part, I did say that mix and matching is Class Dependant. But that's cool. And no, stacking 3 diff sets to soft cap your int isn't bad. It means you can use Wounds or toughness Tali's and toughness Pots. And I'd love to come compare cars with you. You take a standard beat up Dodge, and I'll go clean and detail mine. Cause that's how you do a comparison right? Jesus. Your final point makes no sense though. We are not comparing a 2/2/3 to conq/anni. We are comparing conq/anni. If you want to compare a 2/2/3 to Conq we can do that. But guess what? You don't count talismans into the **** equation. Or, hey guess what. You could compare then in a Void, w/o any other crap to clutter the math... Y'know, like an actual comparison...

2nd Part, One could, if they didn't actually read what I wrote, or do their own homework. The set bonus' are entirely different class to class. Some classes love the set bonus, other's hate them. The 66tough/wounds might be awesome for a shaman! Or it might entirely **** up your build, cause you lost that mastery point. I called funny math, because Morfee stated that he switched up his spec/jewels/etc and then tried to show his Stats. That is funny math. If you can't understand that, sorry. He had +115tough and +90 wounds. Not +66/+66 as the set bonus' state. So....

Set bonus' are not static(class to class), and seeing as I did say that imo mixing and matching can lead to BiS I don't believe my ignoring them is entirely biased. Ofc, that's just like my opinion man.

Spoiler:

I was trying to quote ya Dabbart but so many spoilers made my spoiler of your post fail so meh, anyway without spamming so much there are a few key points, old guildies dont play, game has balance and rvr mechanics problems that frustrate me, rng and gear takes a long time to collect, i put aside all these issues i have because the new gear was something i wanted to get on my shaman because its the only shaman set that i like the appearance of and it grants more power.

As for time it took, 6 hours + was 8/10 hour "shifts" at times i would log on at 3pm and not log off to 2am, going afk to cook/eat, watch my daily tv programs etc etc, coming back to the screen to replant seeds or take advantage of any quick contribution boosts, its no secret most ppl do this type of afk, no automated **** just taking a break or doing stuff while still logged in, it was hard work and exhausting, no way im doing it again.

I dont know how you come to that value on sets, i didnt change a bunch of stuff, 2 jewels and renown spec change, i gained alot more then i lost just took some reallocation of stuff, it is certainly more than 2 high end talis which was claimed to be the difference when i last made a fuss about conq sets.

Lastly im the type of player who wants a carrot to work towards, someone who will do the hard work first so that when done i can go back to playing for fun first instead of contribution/gear 1st and fun 2nd, lets face it how many times have players put aside what would be more fun to do something that would help there contribution, i mean many a time doing so you are not just fighting the other realm but your own realm, be it spamming the supply as fast as possible or trying to steal a kill from 2 guys fighting each other, currently its not a healthy environment.

I know im not alone in feeling the way i do, minority ? possibly but i believe its important to listen to reasons and criticism of systems in order to make stuff better and improve.

Also tnx for the offer to be my friend put i dont play with bads.

Spoiler:

bad joke, english humour for ya

My values where are all from: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 2053266822 That's the spreadsheet the GMs gave us for all the gear. I just went to anni, copy pasted next to conq and did the math per item. My point is the same though morfee. You are comparing 2 different builds with 2 different sets of alternate gear(jewels in this case), and trying to use that to say that Anni is weaker. Well, how much of a difference in tough/wounds do you have with anni on with those jewels in that spec? Theoretically, it should be about 50/40 off. Depending how the Belt works out.

And, on your last point, that comes close but doesn't answer my question towards you. If you could of attained that Conq gear in less than a weeks Avg play(say 3-4hrs a night), would you of even come close to amount of hours you put in to "grind" the gear? You say you are a player that needs a Carrot. Well, once you attain said carrot. Then what? Will you stay super active, or go find something else to do?

Based on the start of your post(and my reading what you have written on these forums), it seems like you wouldn't. In fact, that new gear and the grind was the only thing that had you return and put in anywhere near the kind of activity you did. So, how did the new gear not do it's job? It got you playing. For a **** load of hours. Just cause you don't entirely enjoy every moment doesn't mean it is bad design. I love Final Fantasy Tactics. Even though you have to Random Battle for hours and hours to lvl up your XP/Job. Those hours are boring and repetitive, but I do em, cause I love the rest of the game so much. And w/o them(and balanced properly) the game would take like 5hrs to beat, and then I move on to the next game.

Spoiler:

I don't blame you. I don't play with Bads either. That's why I'm not allowed to masturbate. Can't play w/ myself...

@ Everyone talking about the gear difference being so insurmountable: Did any of you actually **** play Live?! The gear gap was RIDICULOUS, and that was before RR100. The Dev's are purposefully altering the set's so that power creep is at a minimum. Honestly, I just think that at this stage of the game, those that have tons of loot tend to be those that are A, Active. B, Have a team to play with. And/or C, are just really, really good players. Any combination of the 2, and you PUGs are boned. Whether they are in full Ruin or Conq. You're still getting rolled. Why? Cause Skill, Teamwork, and Game Knowledge(along with some helpful Addons, thank you Enemy) are FAR more important than any gear you could wear.

TLDR: Probably a good idea.

[Nefarian78]

those that have tons of loot tend to be those that are A, Active. B, Have a team to play with. And/or C, are just really, really good players. Any combination of the 2, and you PUGs are boned. Whether they are in full Ruin or Conq. You're still getting rolled. Why? Cause Skill, Teamwork, and Game Knowledge(along with some helpful Addons, thank you Enemy) are FAR more important than any gear you could wear.

Since when gearing requires skill? gearing requires only to be active and playing costantly in premades, no skill involved whatsoever. It's just a boring and too long grind that instead of keeping people around longer it's driving them away. the exact opposite of what the devs wanted.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

those that have tons of loot tend to be those that are A, Active. B, Have a team to play with. And/or C, are just really, really good players. Any combination of the 2, and you PUGs are boned. Whether they are in full Ruin or Conq. You're still getting rolled. Why? Cause Skill, Teamwork, and Game Knowledge(along with some helpful Addons, thank you Enemy) are FAR more important than any gear you could wear.

Since when gearing requires skill? gearing requires only to be active and playing costantly in premades, no skill involved whatsoever. It's just a boring and too long grind that instead of keeping people around longer it's driving them away. the exact opposite of what the devs wanted.

Jesus. Reading comprehension buddy. Did I say that gearing up requires skill? No. I said that "Skill, Teamwork, and Game Knowledge(along with some helpful Addons, thank you Enemy) are FAR more important than any gear you could wear." So... Are you just making things up? Cause I said nothing along those lines. The comment about those currently Geared should be obvious too you. Since, y'know, the ranks of full conq are pretty damned small. And, oh yea reading comprehension again, I did say any combination of 2 or more of the 3... And it was in relation to Conq/Super gear NOT being 100% relevant to whom wins in a fight. But whatever.

And Back to my actual points. A, if you find the grind boring or too long, then just ignore it and play with Anni. The differences are negligable. And B, if you are the type of person that HAS to have a carrot to play for, you can't complain that the FINAL CARROT YOU CAN ACHIEVE CURRENTLY takes awhile. Cause once you get said carrot, then what? And if you say, "then I get to enjoy the game, and just play for the fun of it!" I point you back to A.

Seriously... Consider Conq to be Sov at this point. It is END game. And Morfee just went to show you the amount of time it takes to get fully geared. I would lay any amount of money, ANY, that obtaining full Conq is a VASTLY faster and easier than achieving Inv/Sov was on Live(excepting when everyone got a free set of Sov ofc..) Does no one remember having to wait for a City Siege and then having to go do seperate PQs or run it all the way through just for a chance at a bag? Seriously guys. I get it, yall want your super gear. But how about you think about this rationally, and not just in your own perspective?

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Since when gearing requires skill? gearing requires only to be active and playing costantly in premades, no skill involved whatsoever. It's just a boring and too long grind that instead of keeping people around longer it's driving them away. the exact opposite of what the devs wanted.

Gearing and gains require efficiency. Efficiency requires premades. Premades require teamwork. Teamwork requires skill.

Tldr; stop expecting to log in and join a pug warband and magically be able to compete with LoB, teefz etc. Find five people to play with consistently and it won't be a grind, but a cruise, brotha.

[flintboth]

Is not normal for a game to have on one disigned Tier so much differences between characters players.
Is not a question about premade, pick up group or anything like that, this is more about the "weighing of the boxer" you can't accept on the ring (Tier or scenario for RoR) too much differences between contenders. There is some weight division (category) and for RoR Tiers are dedicated like differents weight division.
Currently the differences between players on one disigned Tier is too important, in terms of level; 31 >>> 40, in terms of RR : 20 >>> 80 and in term of gears/weapons.
A Tier weight must be well balanced for new comers or there is no match, no challenge.
On T4 RvR you have featherweight division fighting against heavyweight division, and this the gears who make the more high differences.

For the T4 take a premade group of new comers of 6 players level 31 rr 31 well xp/rr geared for their level fighting against an other premade group of 6 players level 40 rr 60/80 high xp/rr geared... This is totaly not competitive and not fair, this don't need skills, game play or good positioning.

[wargrimnir]

Is not normal for a game to have on one disigned Tier so much differences between characters players.
Is not a question about premade, pick up group or anything like that, this is more about the "weighing of the boxer" you can't accept on the ring (Tier or scenario for RoR) too much differences between contenders. There is some weight division (category) and for RoR Tiers are dedicated like differents weight division.
Currently the differences between players on one disigned Tier is too important, in terms of level; 31 >>> 40, in terms of RR : 20 >>> 80 and in term of gears/weapons.
A Tier weight must be well balanced for new comers or there is no match, no challenge.
On T4 RvR you have featherweight division fighting against heavyweight division, and this the gears who make the more high differences.

For the T4 take a premade group of new comers of 6 players level 31 rr 31 well xp/rr geared for their level fighting against an other premade group of 6 players level 40 rr 60/80 high xp/rr geared... This is totaly not competitive and not fair, this don't need skills, game play or good positioning.

Might as well get over it now. Did you never play on live? We intend to make things better, but complaining that gear is bad at this stage, that's just silly. Stop while you're ahead.

[Sulorie]

For the T4 take a premade group of new comers of 6 players level 31 rr 31 well xp/rr geared for their level fighting against an other premade group of 6 players level 40 rr 60/80 high xp/rr geared... This is totaly not competitive and not fair, this don't need skills, game play or good positioning.

Who told you to leave T3 with rank 31?
When you don't like the T4 experience with your current rank, don't go there?

I thought people who want to play T4 start powerleveling their toons to rush from 31 to 40. I mean, you already have a group. Farming PQ to get ruin is one way to get XP while doing something useful.

[flintboth]

You right, I have stop one month ago and deleted all my charaters (like you throw out your cigarettes when you want to stop), I need to stop more time to drive my head out of this (sure that make me silly too much).
I have play on live and balance T4 was horible for sure, that the reason why I give my feedback here (I don't say gear is bad, I speak about the importance it take). I know probably my feedback don't interest anyone but that give me an impression to exist, like this silly characters I have play too long.
I like this sad face of gobbo.
Later

[Aurandilaz]

For the T4 take a premade group of new comers of 6 players level 31 rr 31 well xp/rr geared for their level fighting against an other premade group of 6 players level 40 rr 60/80 high xp/rr geared... This is totaly not competitive and not fair, this don't need skills, game play or good positioning.

Who told you to leave T3 with rank 31?
When you don't like the T4 experience with your current rank, don't go there?

I thought people who want to play T4 start powerleveling their toons to rush from 31 to 40. I mean, you already have a group. Farming PQ to get ruin is one way to get XP while doing something useful.

The game tells you to leave T3 as soon as you ding 31, because you turn into a CHICKEN.
The debolstering is still something a big portion of the playerbase doesn't understand and for a good reason, it's a hassle with respeccing and finding suitable gear for debolstered gameplay, especially with Devastator set being not allowed.