WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[Farrul]

This comparison of who is the best in a 1vs1 is not relevant to the point i made above. Again, it's not reasonable for a class with this much utility(stealth S tier escape tools) to have that much abdorb/lifesteal.

[Farrul]

WE's polluting the rvr lakes has everything to do with this utility, bring it to balance and their numbers would normalize. Devs made it worse with the latest patch hence the topic.

[salazarn]

Wh needed a buff. I would like it if other specs had something to offer besides just BaL though.

We tho didn't. The 10% crit on vehement blades with the 20s feinted positioning makes them very very scary. T

The regen spec is worse with the jumps and 1.4k wound debuff and never needed a buff. As stated above you shouldnt be a regenerating tank on a stealth assasin

[Marsares]

I also feel that changes to WE, and to a lesser extent WH, were uncalled for and have now created a character that is so strong, that it's literally polluting the lakes and turning game play toxic. Previously, it was common to get ganked by a WE- that's fine, that's what they're designed to do. Nowadays, it's common to get ganked by multiple at a time, as there's so many of them loitering around.

https://imgur.com/a/r3bF9Jd

18.1% of online T4 players being WE. This may be an anomaly, but this surely can't be healthy.

The argument that it's because they are "flavour of the month", as people like playing changed classes after a patch is mood. Yes, people played healers more for a while after the patch, but that quickly normalised. Likewise, all other MDPS classes saw changes, but none saw uplift of where they were played 7.2% over a 365 day period to where they are played so much. Since the patch, the WE population virtually doubled overnight.

So why do they get played so much, if it's not flavour of the month? Well, they got the full toolkit, burst, CC, wounds debuff, amour bypass, strong defenses, mobility and stealth to disengage when things get hairy. They can take down various classes and lower geared players in a single KD. No other class has so much going for it, and so few weaknesses. A stealth class should be high-burst, but with fragility. This is not the case. With regen items and given that there's no need to spec for crit due to Witch Brew, and thus WEs can spec instead much deeper in defense.

There is then the argument that classes aren't balanced on a 1v1 basis, and thus people should not judge a character on that basis. True, if this was a high pop server. Half the time, there's a pop of less than 500, with a low around 200. Outside prime time, there's typically 25-99 people in a zone, with very little elsewhere. At such a level of population, how strong a class is on a 1 vs 1 or 1 vs few level does most definitely matter. Furthermore, the argument was previously that WE/WH had to be strong 1v1, as they were weak in WBs - that's no longer the case.

And finally, there's been a few that say "What about ...?". It does not matter. WL was overtuned, it needed to be toned down. If a class is overtuned, it doesn't matter if others are as well - they all need to be balanced.

I'm hoping the devs will resolve this. Levelling up in T4 is rough enough for new players, being perpetually ganked by WEs and WHs will drive new players away in hordes, and quite some old-school players as well.

P.S. my argument has been mostly around WEs, as I play Order and am on the receiving end of WEs. I rarely play Destro, so can't judge how overtuned WHs are, but suspeect a similar argument applies to them.

[salazarn]

I also feel that changes to WE, and to a lesser extent WH, were uncalled for and have now created a character that is so strong, that it's literally polluting the lakes and turning game play toxic. Previously, it was common to get ganked by a WE- that's fine, that's what they're designed to do. Nowadays, it's common to get ganked by multiple at a time, as there's so many of them loitering around.

https://imgur.com/a/r3bF9Jd

18.1% of online T4 players being WE. This may be an anomaly, but this surely can't be healthy.

The argument that it's because they are "flavour of the month", as people like playing changed classes after a patch is mood. Yes, people played healers more for a while after the patch, but that quickly normalised. Likewise, all other MDPS classes saw changes, but none saw uplift of where they were played 7.2% over a 365 day period to where they are played so much. Since the patch, the WE population virtually doubled overnight.

So why do they get played so much, if it's not flavour of the month? Well, they got the full toolkit, burst, CC, wounds debuff, amour bypass, strong defenses, mobility and stealth to disengage when things get hairy. They can take down various classes and lower geared players in a single KD. No other class has so much going for it, and so few weaknesses. A stealth class should be high-burst, but with fragility. This is not the case. With regen items and given that there's no need to spec for crit due to Witch Brew, and thus WEs can spec instead much deeper in defense.

There is then the argument that classes aren't balanced on a 1v1 basis, and thus people should not judge a character on that basis. True, if this was a high pop server. Half the time, there's a pop of less than 500, with a low around 200. Outside prime time, there's typically 25-99 people in a zone, with very little elsewhere. At such a level of population, how strong a class is on a 1 vs 1 or 1 vs few level does most definitely matter. Furthermore, the argument was previously that WE/WH had to be strong 1v1, as they were weak in WBs - that's no longer the case.

And finally, there's been a few that say "What about ...?". It does not matter. WL was overtuned, it needed to be toned down. If a class is overtuned, it doesn't matter if others are as well - they all need to be balanced.

I'm hoping the devs will resolve this. Levelling up in T4 is rough enough for new players, being perpetually ganked by WEs and WHs will drive new players away in hordes, and quite some old-school players as well.

P.S. my argument has been mostly around WEs, as I play Order and am on the receiving end of WEs. I rarely play Destro, so can't judge how overtuned WHs are, but suspeect a similar argument applies to them.

Welf may be op. But the reason many play them is not solely due to that. It is because they just want to log on and play some pvp. They dont want to fine tune a 6 man or sign up to discord warband or whatever.

They just want to roam the lakes.Solo or duo or wtvr

And certain classes can do that now, and one is welf and another is WH. Give more roaming tools to SW, chopper, slayer, IB, sorc and you will see more diversity of classes.

[Sever1n]

Wont happen, smallscalers dont deserve balance and their wishes to have 1-3man skirmishes are heresy that should be immediately punished by players who play in "rigth way" by constant premading and blobing. Even more - solo players should treated like they dont exist, no matter if they prove otherwise. So this WE infestation is totaly normal, just bring warband 24/7 with you, dont go into dark places alone or you will die to somethimg that isn't a balance issue, cos its 1vs1 and it doesnt matter

Pls dont put = between wh and we. As one of them - BaL situation not something was expected from this rework, but this skill is cornerstone this class really hold on, wich is really sad but it is what it is.

[Illuminati]

Wont happen, smallscalers dont deserve balance and their wishes to have 1-3man skirmishes are heresy that should be immediately punished by players who play in "rigth way" by constant premading and blobing. Even more - solo players should treated like they dont exist, no matter if they prove otherwise. So this WE infestation is totaly normal, just bring warband 24/7 with you, dont go into dark places alone or you will die to somethimg that isn't a balance issue, cos its 1vs1 and it doesnt matter

Pls dont put = between wh and we. As one of them - BaL situation not something was expected from this rework, but this skill is cornerstone this class really hold on, wich is really sad but it is what it is.

The playerbase and team hopefully changes the tone on small game / 1v1 play. It happens all the time and is the primary media used to gain new players. Nobody watches a blob v blob video and thinks, "I want to play that!", they see the 1v1 videos, cool looking characters and combat data that doesn't visually overload them and give the game a try.

Honestly, the cat is out of the bag on these WE/WH adjustments. Balance may come in the form of the Ranged DPS Balance Patch which may make Assault SW monsters to clean up all the WE solo-groups =p

[Pesteavino]

WE is popular cause now IS more fun, easy to level, and easy to play solo/small roam.

And you can say 1vs1 doesnt Matter but 80% of the people prefer to solo play roam etc.

If you dont believe , just check why people hates SC WE/WH ,blob etc , cause that thing doesnt let them play solo

[Marsares]

WE is popular cause now IS more fun, easy to level, and easy to play solo/small roam.

And you can say 1vs1 doesnt Matter but 80% of the people prefer to solo play roam etc.

If you dont believe , just check why people hates SC WE/WH ,blob etc , cause that thing doesnt let them play solo

Yet that is zero reason why they should be so overtuned.

[Sever1n]

If next patches will be as this one, its total casino what will became with ranged dps.