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Changelog 14th May 2016

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iHope
Posts: 6

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#81 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:34 am

Theseus wrote:Well it is not the Annihilator Wipe that concerns me. But as I get the notes and what I heard from players in game, you cant get bags or meds if the keep is defended. That is a problem in my point of view.

It is a problem, because, now it is a strategical method of denying the enemy loot if you are not sure to win. With the former system you were punished for not defending. Now you wont, so no need to defend if you are weaker. And witout a realistic chance of an award there is no point in attacing either, so I fear, this decision may have killed RvR while in effect.
I experienced something similar yesterday in t2 RvR, what happened was, Order was attacking a castle managed to take down the door and failed to finish the castle off while destruction probably had more people defending. After we lost i presume destruction got rewarded and proceeded to just sit on the castle while we tried working hard again to attack and failed again, equal numbers. So at one point people went "let's go to another map" and someone said:"well why?".

See the problem is, let's say u swap map and take an undefended castle, you gain nothing. All you possibly gain is the advantage of having to defend a castle, but let's say destruction react in time come there and defend the castle, they get awarded again while you gain nothing. And this continues, the risk to reward ratio is very much in favour of the defenders.

I think one of the mechanics that is problematic is respawning in the castle after you die while defending, it is just too hard to take a castle that is being defended with people respawning inside of it, while you're respawning 1min of walk away or more. There should be more mechanics put in place to make it harder to defend it's that simple.

Balancing RvR is by no means easy. So the latest change is promoting pvp over taking objectives, I actualy don't think the rewards are the issue here, it's more about how many tools we have to attack/defend. As long as you give us the players the right tools we Will make use of them and the RvR is going to benefit from it.

Tools:
- Where do you respawn and how long does it take to respawn? Attacking/Defending
- Can we use siege weapons to attack, how much do siege weapons cost for lower tiers?
- Maybe implement siege weapons as drops from bags which we can select, Gw2 did that well.

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Mael
Posts: 73

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#82 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:35 am

Razielhell wrote:
Njordin wrote:Keep sieges will happen again as soon as rams get fixed.
Oils discourage players standing under the Doors...dont you think? Currently 1 hit and dead.
Ranged people take out the oil? Problem solved.
Maelsorc 40/34 On sabbatical until sanity returns
Maelsmash 40/31 Ditto.

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Noergl
Posts: 360

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#83 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:43 am

Mael wrote:
Razielhell wrote:
Njordin wrote:Keep sieges will happen again as soon as rams get fixed.
Oils discourage players standing under the Doors...dont you think? Currently 1 hit and dead.
Ranged people take out the oil? Problem solved.
Ask your friendly engineer, shadow hunter, bright mage, archmage, squig herder, shaman, sorcerer,chaos mage... and they will gladly help you with any oil and pommes frites problem.
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(Co-leader of 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers)

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Razielhell
Former Staff
Posts: 1228
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Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#84 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:44 am

There is a repair button on siege weapons. ;)
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sioding
Game Master
Posts: 1382

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#85 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:47 am

It is fine as it is - i am not happy with the Medallion thing - but i like the attitude the team have - thats what we need for a good future of the server.

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Mael
Posts: 73

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#86 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:49 am

zumos2 wrote:If you quote someone, you should quote everything that is relevant.
I did, the rest of your post was imho white noise. If you read what I posted instead of kneejerk reacting, you would see that. I do apologise if your feelings got hurt though.
Maelsorc 40/34 On sabbatical until sanity returns
Maelsmash 40/31 Ditto.

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Theseus
Posts: 526

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#87 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:53 am

iHope wrote:
Theseus wrote:Well it is not the Annihilator Wipe that concerns me. But as I get the notes and what I heard from players in game, you cant get bags or meds if the keep is defended. That is a problem in my point of view.

It is a problem, because, now it is a strategical method of denying the enemy loot if you are not sure to win. With the former system you were punished for not defending. Now you wont, so no need to defend if you are weaker. And witout a realistic chance of an award there is no point in attacing either, so I fear, this decision may have killed RvR while in effect.
I experienced something similar yesterday in t2 RvR, what happened was, Order was attacking a castle managed to take down the door and failed to finish the castle off while destruction probably had more people defending. After we lost i presume destruction got rewarded and proceeded to just sit on the castle while we tried working hard again to attack and failed again, equal numbers. So at one point people went "let's go to another map" and someone said:"well why?".

See the problem is, let's say u swap map and take an undefended castle, you gain nothing. All you possibly gain is the advantage of having to defend a castle, but let's say destruction react in time come there and defend the castle, they get awarded again while you gain nothing. And this continues, the risk to reward ratio is very much in favour of the defenders.

I think one of the mechanics that is problematic is respawning in the castle after you die while defending, it is just too hard to take a castle that is being defended with people respawning inside of it, while you're respawning 1min of walk away or more. There should be more mechanics put in place to make it harder to defend it's that simple.

Balancing RvR is by no means easy. So the latest change is promoting pvp over taking objectives, I actualy don't think the rewards are the issue here, it's more about how many tools we have to attack/defend. As long as you give us the players the right tools we Will make use of them and the RvR is going to benefit from it.

Tools:
- Where do you respawn and how long does it take to respawn? Attacking/Defending
- Can we use siege weapons to attack, how much do siege weapons cost for lower tiers?
- Maybe implement siege weapons as drops from bags which we can select, Gw2 did that well.

Well you too have a point...but, and ofc i can only talk about myself, but the empty rvr we have since the patch shows i do have a point, taking a castle without any reward beyond renown is just not worth the time, as i can do sc where i get the weapons or pq where i get sets and so on, so why do the castles. And why defend the castles if you dont have the numbers to hold it... the only thing you would do with that is to strengthen the enemy, so you rather lean back and wach them getting nothing from an empty keep.


So either way the attacer loses, in the first case he captures an empty keep and get nothing, or he loses and gets nothing and strengthen even the enemy. So there is no point in sieging right now.
Andyrion Ulthenair
Arphyrion Soulblade

Grobbok
Posts: 420

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#88 » Sun May 15, 2016 11:37 am

on old game, there was empty keeps, empty altdorfs/IC sieges, and if no GW/EA close it, old war will gonna enjoy us for now
why we must be forced to pvp, if some ppl wanna greed, some sc, some zerging and some ganking in premades that zerg, it's ok, let they do what they enjoy
so many options, and why now we forced to all time fight
lider of Da fat squigs guild

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Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#89 » Sun May 15, 2016 11:39 am

personal i love to play scs :D i will join rvr just for lil group actions or solo play or city raids are open . iam sry that i dont test there but iam testing scs pqs as well ;D
Tinkabell 40/41 Magus Whaagit 40/41 SH Whaagot 40/54 BO Daknallfrosch 40/72shammy

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Telen
Suspended
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Re: Changelog 14th May 2016

Post#90 » Sun May 15, 2016 12:07 pm

Razielhell wrote:
Njordin wrote:Keep sieges will happen again as soon as rams get fixed.
Oils discourage players standing under the Doors...dont you think? Currently 1 hit and dead.
Only tanks should be on the doors. Mdps should be lockpicking and guarding posterns. Healers and ranged should be taking pressure off the tanks. Just like in the old days when oil did kill.
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