Hotfix 21/08/16

[Morbidmind]

I disagree that the sovereign sets were well balanced myself. Not a relevant point but god damn, those tiers of gear were too much.

[Arena]

- This server is development first, player experience second.

If that's so, then why wipe all 50+ rr down to 50 in the first place? If experience not matter, then make few people upset is don't make sence. You could leave it as is and just continue make server better without mentioning or reacting on this aftermath of issue.

Yeah we could leave a few people to have a massive renown advantage over the majority of the players by virtue of an exploit but given there are significant benefits to RR points we choose not to allow this and to bring them back down. We are genuinely sorry for the very, very few people players who got caught in this who didnt exploit the siege but funnily enough they are the ones going "no big deal, will just go out and get more".

Unlike other games, balance and fairness is paramount to us and whats best for the majority will always override the whims and the preferences of the few.

This is very interesting from certain point:
When (if) you implement Invader set, of Sovereign set, how exactly will be coexists players who have those powerfull sets with players who will be playing 32+ characters with Annihilator sets? I think there will be much big difference between them, than 45rr and 60rr now.
IMO there will be always people who have advantage among others. Those people who spend more time and play harder than others will always be better then others, and they should be like this. Because this is the only point to spend more time in game then just couple of hours one time in few weeks - to be stronger then that other dude running around. And if you will set your position to "we must protect those who are weak and don't have good gear" - there will be very undesirable consequences.

P.S. Dear developers, despite the fact that I do not always agree with your decisions, I still love each and every one of you!
[goes to add more useless reports on bugtracker]

[goa]

I dont care what assumptions you made [...]

So... You don't care about my assumptions that pointed at the problem (I didn't know the formula of why, and still don't know the renown formula so I still wouldn't be able to report it). 2½ months later you punish a specific group of players, which are in no way directly connected to the issue. What those players all had in common was that they played the game a lot.

At first I thought, oh well not a big deal about losing som RR. What upsets me is how you handle it in this thread by pointing finger at us, calling us cheaters. If there was a problem needed to be corrected, you should've said so. Or are you still convinced this group of players did cheat unlike any others?

I have read that linked post many times and can't find what you're trying to point at except what I quoted earlier. We are testers and development comes first, but that doesn't justify 'randomly' punishing a selected group of players.

[Danielle]

***Lots and lots of words***

We dont need to "label" something for it to be an exploit, common sense works pretty well just people like to ignore it in the hope of maintaining an advantage and then act all indignant when their actions come home to them in a way they dont like.

Lets see, "I get 250 renown for killing a dude with my sword yet 1000 renown for killing someone in safety behind a wall using a aoe siege cannon" yep seems legit and fully intended right? You did it, you lost it, deal with it.

Just a FYI, I would personally be happy with full wipes back to 1/1

oh and heres something for you all

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=16391&p=180033#p180033

Noone even ever explained how siege RR was bugged. You didn't get 1k renown for killing a dude with a cannon behind a wall. You got like a 100-150RR (with no AAO) but you got it like 30x times for 30 dudes that died, making the AoE cannon overpowered in terms of renown.

Accusing me of being a riskless player when I was probably the most risk taking order player that exists out there is hillarious. Even the oils I used were generally super risky. I have had enough. Clearly you are not going to reverse this nor are you open to others opinions, so keep telling yourself all the people you wiped are evil exploiters so that you can feel good about yourself doing it and wasting hundreds upon hundreds of players legitimate play time. I guess anyone who used siege since release exploited. A dev even wrote somewhere that the problem was with how renown was regularly calculated and that this was the same for siege.

Why should I not be upset that I am getting punished together with 29 other players for a so called exploit almost everybody used? While everyone else gets to keep everything, where's the logic in that? Nowhere. If you roll people back, roll back everybody.

[Danielle]

Noone even ever explained how siege RR was bugged. You didn't get 1k renown for killing a dude with a cannon behind a wall. You got like a 100-150RR (with no AAO) but you got it like 30x times for 30 dudes that died, making the AoE cannon overpowered in terms of renown.

Accusing me of being a riskless player when I was probably the most risk taking order player that exists out there is hillarious. Even the oils I used were generally super risky. I have had enough. Clearly you are not going to reverse this nor are you open to others opinions, so keep telling yourself all the people you wiped are evil exploiters so that you can feel good about yourself doing it and wasting hundreds upon hundreds of players legitimate play time. I guess anyone who used siege since release exploited. A dev even wrote somewhere that the problem was with how renown was regularly calculated and that this was the same for siege.

Why should I not be upset that I am getting punished together with 29 other players for a so called exploit almost everybody used? While everyone else gets to keep everything, where's the logic in that? Nowhere. If you roll people back, roll back everybody.

Again, I dont care about your whines, it was obvious to everyone the gains were massively out of whack and Im sorry you didnt have the sense to see it wasnt an acceptable state. I value you as a player and a tester but thats it, you dont get special treatment and ultimately if you stopped playing tomorrow this game wouldnt miss a beat, we certainly dont want to lose a single player but we would manage somehow.

Also take a good look at the link I provided twice now, (here it is for a third time viewtopic.php?f=52&t=16391&p=180033#p180033) because you seem to have ignored it, then take some deep breaths and gain a little perspective and also you dont get to tell us what to do. If you would care to join the team applications can be found here viewforum.php?f=45

You have said your piece, we are all aware of it, we are not undoing the action, I would advise leaving it at that.

I am under no illusion that I have any power here except that of my argument. Since I have clearly failed to convince you, or even engage you in a conversation about the matter succesfully, that's that for what I can and can't do.

I've read that post you are linking and it doesn't contain anything I didn't know. However, since the lead developer felt the need to post it I will again reconsider what is written in it. I agree with the principles outlined there, however that doesn't mean I won't criticize individual decisions when I feel like mistakes may have been made - that is all, and thank you for letting me speak my piece without moderating me. You can do whatever you want with that criticism, you can ignore it, you can think about it, you can take it on board, but continue with the moves you want to do anyway.

I have no issues whatsoever with renown being wiped, characters being wiped or exploits being punished. What bothers me is the way the wipe was targeted and the way the targeting was explained. Furthermore I am disappointed that instead of actually presenting counterarguments, to what I had to say I instead received attacks ad hominem in the exchange. Anyway I guess just like me you got that point already, so there's no point repeating it over and over again. So as you suggested, let's just leave it there.

[Reesh]

You have also forgotten, that with a 25% renown gain rate, rank 50 isn't bad. Besides healers, other classes have hard time ranking up with such a rate. Even my bw isn't 45 yet, so finally, quit whining.

[Stinkyweed]

The 1% need to pay their fair share! Give the rest of us the deducted renown of the elite.

Stinkyweed Rodham Clinton in 2016!

[Vdova]

It's not about punishing those who use siege weapons because that would be stupid; it's about reverting the insane renown/inf/xp gained from one-shotting people with them. A marauder in t3 literally made a video of his 'progression' through the xp/rr ranks in insane time from just using the bugged oil.

It's cute how people are trying to defend it ^^ Maybe if people focused more on pvp and not using these exploitative mechanics there'd be less salt.

Iam not defending any exploits or exploiters. Thanks to minimum time to play I dont join parties/warbands,because of my fast and unpredictable quiting,because of our little son(1 month old). When siege happens during my online time,I have 2 options. 1) help to defending keep and as a WE withoit any ranged options and nearly no AOE in melee range in my spec I use siege engines. 2) try to gank those,who want to join attackers,but lakes are full of premades and warbands with minimum soloers.
Sometimes I guard walls and posterns,but its mostly waste of time I can spent in siege engine doing some dmg or ganking and getting ganked by premades