[Eng/Magus] Sticky Bombs / Seed of Chaos

[Grunbag]

So you guys are suggesting 500/s x the number of engies / magus in every funnel.

So lets say there are 5 maguses we talk about 1-2,5k per seconds of added burst in the hotspot (since it dont consume gcds)

Why 500/s ? Nitroglycerin has only 25% chance to proc , and only 20 feet around the target so very close . Basically in a funnel it will hit the tank wall and I don t think a grenade hit a tank at 500 dps ?
I guess nitroglycerin grenade don't stack on same target (can't have 2 nitroglycerin on 1 destro) and I don't think it could be worst than 5 sorc aoe in a funnel

Would not you guys just prefer a st option for the mid path? why you want a aoe proc? is due to try to get some pressure to force aoe heals while you st bring down someone or just because you think that engi need more aoe dmg?

and regardless anyone willing to discuss something for magus?

Almost all grenade are aoe , so I guess you're spec for aoe damage and aoe rotation by chosing grenadier tree , That's why a aoe ability would fit better actual grenadier rotation .

I'd be glad to talk about magus , unfortunalty my knowledge in this class is really poor , but I guess all proposal about engineer would be mirrored to magus in this thread .

Edit:
There were some good ST grenade abilities at AoR beta/alpha :

Toss Bandolier
Range 0-65ft
Throws three Grenade attacks at your target.

Mini-Helga
You focus on your enemy for 3 seconds, repeatedly shooting at them for very high damage that ignores their armor.

I guess it was something like focused fire but with grenade .

If you look more for healer pressure I already link magus/engineer silence (removed by mythic)

Spoiler:

Engineer:
Pepper Bomb
25 Action Points - 65 ft range
1s cast - 30s cooldown
You lob a grenade packed full of a noxious choking powder, dealing 150 Corporeal damage to your enemy and silencing them for 5 seconds, making them unable to use magic.

Magus:
Theft Of Words
25 Action Points 65 ft range
1s cast 30s cooldown
Rips the voice from your target, dealing 60 Elemental damage and silencing them for 5 seconds.

[Tesq]

i think if any st thing should be given it should be a wounds debuff due to what luth wrote kinda feel the best skill avaiable and will work good vs any class. Anyway seems that the base for change the skills are different for magus/engi, magus on the mid path is more st with channeling and seed of chaos while Engi only have the sticky bomb being st while instead engi have strifing run which is aoe, tough the mid mastery should be st for me not aoe. I think is not right give even more aoe option to the engi rather being able to have the pot + pull. And same goes for magus; while actually re work something for st. Kind ok with being the pull rdps but not with having to choose between pot and pull. The pull would also make the pot both classes have better as you can put pot under the enemy and when they move re pull over it. It will also not be this bad in keep siege situation as pointed by boxx and multiple engi/magus will be able to keep the pot over enemy wb if they move multiple times.

Ye i kinda renew my idea:

stiky bomb into a wounds debuff / seed of chaos into heal debuff--> both as 13 pt skill + drop to 9 pt napalm /diss mist

[Bozzax]

Why 500/s ? Nitroglycerin has only 25% chance to proc , and only 20 feet around the target so very close . Basically in a funnel it will hit the tank wall and I don t think a grenade hit a tank at 500 dps ?
I guess nitroglycerin grenade don't stack on same target (can't have 2 nitroglycerin on 1 destro) and I don't think it could be worst than 5 sorc aoe in a funnel

- increase the damage on the AoE explosion to around 400-500 base damage full spec. With gear a tooltip of ~650ish.

Or about x2 Witchbrew

In a hotspot everything on incoming hit will proc every second and why would you not be able to have 5 on you? Or 5 on the guys around you.

No it wont be worse then 5 sorc aoe funnel. It will be on top of the sorc/magus aoe burst as it is prequeued damage.

Out of curiosity are you also thinking it should be amplified by engi x2 damage UF morale and +40 magus/engi stacks?

[shaggyboomboom]

Toss Bandolier
Range 0-65ft
Throws three Grenade attacks at your target.

Looks like a engie version of Rend Winds to me.

Spoiler:

Engineer:
Pepper Bomb
25 Action Points - 65 ft range
1s cast - 30s cooldown
You lob a grenade packed full of a noxious choking powder, dealing 150 Corporeal damage to your enemy and silencing them for 5 seconds, making them unable to use magic.

Magus:
Theft Of Words
25 Action Points 65 ft range
1s cast 30s cooldown
Rips the voice from your target, dealing 60 Elemental damage and silencing them for 5 seconds.

AM and Sham already have the 5 sec silence, I guess they switched the abilities around.

[Grunbag]

i think if any st thing should be given it should be a wounds debuff due to what luth wrote kinda feel the best skill avaiable and will work good vs any class. Anyway seems that the base for change the skills are different for magus/engi, magus on the mid path is more st with channeling and seed of chaos while Engi only have the sticky bomb being st while instead engi have strifing run which is aoe, tough the mid mastery should be st for me not aoe. I think is not right give even more aoe option to the engi rather being able to have the pot + pull. And same goes for magus; while actually re work something for st. Kind ok with being the pull rdps but not with having to choose between pot and pull. The pull would also make the pot both classes have better as you can put pot under the enemy and when they move re pull over it. It will also not be this bad in keep siege situation as pointed by boxx and multiple engi/magus will be able to keep the pot over enemy wb if they move multiple times.

Ye i kinda renew my idea:

stiky bomb into a wounds debuff / seed of chaos into heal debuff--> both as 13 pt skill + drop to 9 pt napalm /diss mist

I don't think a simple wound debuff could be better then napalm , so it don't deserve to be so high in tree .

Magus mid tree is not aoe spec ?

I don't think swapping napalm to 9 points just to be able to pull on napalm worth it .

If you want a ability that would make napalm more efficient you better think about a zone snare (something like sham) , engineer has something alike before :

Shrapnel Grenade
Action Point 90
Range 0-65
A grenade that you launch at the ground, scattering shrapnel 30 feet around the spot you select for 15 seconds. Any enemies who enter the area will take damage and become snared, reducing their runspeed by 60% while they remain within the area

If you throw your shrapnel grenade at the same place as napalm , longer the ennemi would stay in napalm (60% snare is great) .

But to me this is an ability that can replace strafin run at 9 point in middle path .

Here a video of sharpnel grenade : (start at 40sec)
https://youtu.be/qlP4VBMtwSg

[Grunbag]

Or about x2 Witchbrew

In a hotspot everything on incoming hit will proc every second and why would you not be able to have 5 on you? Or 5 on the guys around you.

No it wont be worse then 5 sorc aoe funnel. It will be on top of the sorc/magus aoe burst as it is prequeued damage.

Out of curiosity are you also thinking it should be amplified by engi x2 damage UF morale and +40 magus/engi stacks?

Then it could proc once every 2 sec ? With mitigation not sure it'll hit 500 all the times .

Ye i kinda renew my idea:

stiky bomb into a wounds debuff / seed of chaos into heal debuff--> both as 13 pt skill + drop to 9 pt napalm /diss mist

Dont squig and SW already have a ranged heal debuff ?

[Tesq]

Think both mastery were more similar in past pre changes due to what i see was removed, by having a mixed st/aoe component all over the place tough engi/magus alredy have an aoe mastery which is right wing, lower napalm/diss mist which is something that define the classes a little as pot do with sh/am and make it viable with pull is the same as giving a new aoe skill to the engi, just that doing that and giving them a wounds debuff you give them something precious for order comp, also is 13pt and require high investiment aka you can't take that and snipe depending on the build. This push for build diversity while having napalm there don't, as it jsut a self imposed weakness for rift build, because you need to get pull in first place and take pull if not totally remove the chance to take napalm/diss mist make you leave many things behind. Also not have a strong 13 pt skill push you over the left mastery and make the mid one less appealling. So drop napalm/diss mist a little and have a strong 13 pt skill will make ppl more willing to spec deeper into the mid mastery.

yes squig alredy have 1 heal debuff but for destru rdps it should be the only one, i think the only classes on order side which have not at least a 25% heal debuff is only engi while destru have both sorc/magus with out it. Depending how much is strong the burst a 25% or a 50% should be given tough mirror something from bw it sould be a 20 sec CD heal debuff(20 instead 30 because no secondary eff just heal debuff) if 50% or a 25% with 10 sec CD.

it also open up a little of ranged aoe for magus instead being in cc thx to firestorm curently position on left mastery and a bit of hybrid build.

[Grunbag]

Think both mastery were more similar in past pre changes due to what i see was removed, by having a mixed st/aoe component all over the place tough engi/magus alredy have an aoe mastery which is right wing, lower napalm/diss mist which is something that define the classes a little as pot do with sh/am and make it viable with pull is the same as giving a new aoe skill to the engi, just that doing that and giving them a wounds debuff you give them something precious for order comp, also is 13pt and require high investiment aka you can't take that and snipe depending on the build. This push for build diversity while having napalm there don't, as it jsut a self imposed weakness for rift build, because you need to get pull in first place and take pull if not totally remove the chance to take napalm/diss mist make you leave many things behind. Also not have a strong 13 pt skill push you over the left mastery and make the mid one less appealling. So drop napalm/diss mist a little and have a strong 13 pt skill will make ppl more willing to spec deeper into the mid mastery.

yes squig alredy have 1 heal debuff but for destru rdps it should be the only one, i think the only classes on order side which have not at least a 25% heal debuff is only engi while destru have both sorc/magus with out it. Depending how much is strong the burst a 25% or a 50% should be given tough mirror something from bw it sould be a 20 sec CD heal debuff(20 instead 30 because no secondary eff just heal debuff) if 50% or a 25% with 10 sec CD.

it also open up a little of ranged aoe for magus instead being in cc thx to firestorm curently position on left mastery and a bit of hybrid build.

If heal debuff are not balanced between the realms then I'd see no reason having more debuff heal on order side than on destro side indeed (dunno exactly which class have a heal debuff on order side and which class have a heal debuff on destro side)
If it ever necessary to give only heal debuff to magus and not to engineer (for realm balance reason) , then I'd give a heal debuff to magus and a heal buff to engineer ?

But we are far away from OP here

[Tesq]

wp/dok both have heal debuff (with changes wp also was buffed to 50% rather than 25%, now with changes withdraw idk about future implementation)
WL/mara both have heal debuff (mara can be upgrade to 50%)
slayer/Choppa (both 50%)
we/wh(both 50%)
sw/squig(both 50%)
bw( 50% only bw)

with out
engi/magus/sorc

could also go due to burst reason, since you have less burst than then left mastery, if engi prove to have more burst potential then a wounds debuff would be better due being slightly badder than a heal debuff. Tought idk the state of mid engi right know and the ammount of dmg it can put up

[hogun]

Spoiler:

I am in total agreement with Nirawen (grombrindall) about the engineer.

I do not understand your obstinacy has mitigated a class to correct the wrong direction you have taken. The goal if I understood it was laudable, improved the engineer and the magus. But only the association of these two so-called mirror class shows it seems to me an error of analysis. Experience has shown that before the modifications these two classes did not play the same thing in the same way. Then why do this look like?

Especially that my rare knowledge was the engineers dissatisfied with their class. And I knew magus who had been able to use their class very well.

But you obstinate ... we arrive to this day has choices that lose fond of the interet to the engineer and who up the magus. I do not care if the magus is up, if you think it's necessary

But plz, stop slaughtering the engineer, start by playing it or ask players confirmed in this class and players who are not looking for power but balance.
Why player loved the engineer it was for are quoted Swiss knife. Not the strongest in a field, but interact in synergy, and versatile ...

It was his difference that made his interest ! You want to do what the same class on both sides? If that's the case it's losing interest in the game !

Hogun

Read the balance forum rules. Next post like this one is getting a warning - Penril.