Incredibly long group SC pops

[Juppstein]

I don't suppose Order vs Order or Destruction vs Destruction would be a possibility?

What a wonderfully heretical, although interesting, proposal

[Jaycub]

Non cancerous reimplementation of scenarios into the campaign is probably going to be the only way to cement scenarios as a staple of the game. There just isn't the population yet(hopefully) to have a proper ladder/mmr separate reward base premade type scenarios imo.

Scenarios could even be rolled back in meaningfully without contributing any VP. Buffs to PvE guards, ammo, maybe add a strong hero/lord led patrol of mobs for the winning side in the zone, pretty much a million different ideas I'm sure.

I know more than anyone you, peter, have done for the 6v6/competitive community in terms of organization, but if you want the good fights and scenarios I think for the foreseeable future it will have to be community organized by the players unless we get someone on the team to lobby for our group.

[Bozzax]

@Peter
Some of us feared pugs would start avoiding premades when the pug sc was added. My guess it will be even worse than it is now (for order) before it gets better.

Increasing the winner rewards simply won't solve anything since pugs never win vs premades. (10 x 0 is still 0)

This also holds true for beginner/casual premades vs veteran/hc premades. They simply are farmed like renown pinatas just like pugs.

What you see here is an effect of order having efficient farming teams for a very long time.

Since I'm destruction biased as **** I throw this in for free.

Spoiler:

The mysterious lack of destruction premades could be explained by order being top 6v6 dog since day one.

The "path of least resistance" is very influential when looking at long term effects.

/bias off

[Esperflame]

I honestly wonder why people still bother with grouping for Scs? Vast majority of time you will just farm pugs, if you want 6v6 action you queue for a specific scenario or organized it beforehand to make sure the other realm has some 6man also online.

Sure, some people join Scs looking for "fights", but for many, the reason to join SC is to get emblems; the renown gain from scs is pretty weak.
If I want fights, I do oRvR in guild WB. If I'm doing scs, I'll just be pugging and doing what I can to either get emblems or maximize dbs by hitting lowbies.

SCs are safer than risking going in open rvr . So people know and use group scs to farm rr emblems and such . is funny people asking why grp scs take longer the answer is easier , most people play sc not to be competitive but for for a easy fast fun game .

When u stumble in a sc as pugger or even duo u never know what u gonna find maybe u get luck and players can work together other times its benny hill time .

Now when u join that scs as pugger duo , and u see same names of x6 40s , and u know what they are , a premade u say **** it, most people either afk or die like gremlins after a sun bath .

This happen 1,2 maybe 3 times , but eventualy people say **** it and que for pug sc . not like pug sc is safe of benny hill momments bad match making but is where u can get most fun as solo, duo player .

In a ideal world 6 mans should be forced to play only agaisnt other 6 mans in the 6 man scs but , alas it never gonna happen so is moot point .

What's really starting to hurt SCs is the premades breaking up into groups so they can queue the PUG SC. What's worse is both sides are doing this ruining a PUG groups fun time. I have many screenshots of Destro premades in PUG SCs, even of ones who admit they're doing it and claim I have no proof. Trust me, I have the proof. The only thing stopping me from turning in this proof is the damage it would do to the server. I mean these people will be banned, possibly permanently and that's not what I want. I've watched this server bleed players left and right since I joined and I firmly believe some of that has to do with people getting permanently banned over misunderstandings or people leaving because the friends they played with on live are now banned on here. I watched a friend of mine get banned and accused of Nazi Propaganda because he got short with the GM staff and was disrespectful with that staff over that incident. He wasn't banned for the supposed propaganda, but because he very aggressively defended what he said with reason. Sure he was aggressive and upset, but wouldn't you be if you were accused of what he was? People are tired of watching their friends get banned permanently over a misunderstanding. Some bans should be permanent for sure, but have we lost our ability to talk about that? MMO's are games we play to socialize with people we like and get along with while playing under a set of rules and I completely understand that side of things. I'm sure we can all agree getting into comms with friends and accomplishing things together are some of the best moments we have in an MMO, but when all your friends disappear the game becomes less enjoyable even to those who remain civil and don't get into trouble.

Now I know some of this is off-topic and I'm sure a GM might ask me to stay on-topic, but I feel some of the problems we're having has to do with some root problems we're having as a community. I love this damn game to death. It was the first MMO I ever played that gave me a PvP experience I genuinely enjoyed. Plus, I'm a huge warhammer nerd and have easily invested thousands of dollars into Fantasy, 40k, Blood Bowl, Mordheim and even some of the pencil/paper RPG games.

I apologize for the wall of text but I really wanted to speak to all of you: Players, Devs, and GMs. I have never stepped out of line on this server and will most likely never do so as I'm here to play a game. Won't you play it with me? (Sorry I'm rambling and will stop here. I apologize to the Devs if this post is a little too off-topic for you guys.)

[peterthepan3]

Had there been a thriving & active group scenario scene, I'd be the first to support you in bringing these people to shame. Given that we don't, I do not blame said people whatsoever: 20-30 minute pops vs 5-10 (max) pops, for the same rewards and without (potentially) the risk of a premade? No brainer!

[Elemint]

In the many, many pug scenarios i've done over the past month or two, never have i ever seen something that looks like a premade solo queing. The worst i've seen is 3+ people from an alliance who sometimes group playing pug scenarios, but i'm sure they were ungrouped and queing everything - nothing can be done about that.
If there is a group abusing the ques, especially an order one, they've done such an embarassing job that it doesn't even matter if they're 2/2/2 in comms or not.

[Kali14]

If I good understand main problem is because premades haven't with who fight.

This is really serius problem and all this start sound really sad

[freshour]

Maybe someone could make an IRC or something for 6 mans? I'm sure a discord would work. I know that I am more than happy to always Q up 6 man after 6 man after 6 man than play RVR or farm endless PVE because it is instant, fun, competitive and takes some serious skill at the higher levels. Just wish more people loved that kinda brawling!!!

[scatterthewinds]

A bunch of the premades had core members banned. That's the root of the problem.

A contributory factor, indeed, but the intent of this thread is to provoke discussion as to how more group play/group scenario can be encouraged.

Ok then:
- combine sc queues
- heavily nerf rdps damage output and survivability. A solo BW and SW needs to be as squishy and useless as an unsupported solo slayer when ***accounting for its range***. Slayer starts taking damage 100 ft away from his target, he has to close that gap before he even starts doing damage. Without heals or guard he gets how much damage in before he dies? That is the amount of damage a not guarded/buffed/healed RDPS should be doing within roughly that time span. ***When that parity is achieved you will see the rdps players hunt for groups like maniacs before entering sc.*** Same thing about survivability... an RDPS protection needs to be adjusted on account that he can kite. IMO, I'd nerf rdps damage and armor values by as much as 30% across the board. Make them NEED guard, offensive and defensive group buffs like melee do. Nerf raw tooltip damage and buff group utility damage (like blurring shock).

Thats it really. Make all classes equally reliant on group support and you will see groups.

[Kragg]

In the many, many pug scenarios i've done over the past month or two, never have i ever seen something that looks like a premade solo queing. The worst i've seen is 3+ people from an alliance who sometimes group playing pug scenarios, but i'm sure they were ungrouped and queing everything - nothing can be done about that.
If there is a group abusing the ques, especially an order one, they've done such an embarassing job that it doesn't even matter if they're 2/2/2 in comms or not.

Bollocks. I been playing them for the last month on pretty much daily basis and I can pick them all out for you by name and guild like one of the posters above has done. They queu at the same time and end up in the pug, wrecking it. Hours on end.