Dwarfs vs Chaos 24vs24 - 12.07.2017

[Haojin]

I think the really good fights are going to be between their respective match ups.
High elves vs Dark elves would be a good fight.
Greenskinz vs Dwarves would be a good fight,
Chaos vs Empire would be a good fight.

When you cross race fight You'll see some races get stomped by others I suspect by game design also.

Greenskinz vs High elves would be a eternal fight mainly due to instant rezing but with a slight favor to High elves.

Chaos vs High elves is a bad match up for Chaos. This is from a lore perspective and from a table top perspective which is represented in this game.

Greenskinz vs Empire assuming correct morale gain rates the fight is in favor of greenskinz.

Dwarves stomp the crap out of Dark elves in the tabletop and I suspect it would be the same here but you need the correct morale gain rates and the defensive morale cycle's to be restored. Without it dwarves are gimpy.

You have to fully restore the game to actually see what these races can do. But the community thinks everything is about mixed and the community thinks morale bombs is bad also which it isn't so... we can't have nice things.

I think a lot of what applied to the tabletop fantasy game is represented in this game at one time. Its a multi million dollar idea.

Chaos > Empire
Chaos > High Elf
Chaos > Dwarfs

High Elf > Dark Elf
High Elf < Greenskin

Dwarf > Greenskin if Dwarf plays smart [still intense]
Dwarf < Dark Elf

Empire > Greenskin, GS might win if plays smart.
Empire > Dark Elf

We all knew how this was going to go with the morale and melee train. Would not recommend doing again unless it can actually be a competition. Good idea in concept but Order just doesn't have the meta for it currently.

btw we didn't use damage morales until the certain victory. both 2 first rounds won by pure dps/aura advantage. the third round dwarfs played better with spreading out to neglect the bomb damage.

From what I saw you guys just played very good in terms of synergy/synching abilities. Cool fights, nonetheless.

Thanks.

[footpatrol2]

If you could magically restore back to patch 1.3 with the correct morale gain rates. I think it would go like this. This is pure theory and I'd love to actually experience this as opposed to chair theory. Ya just don't know until you experience it a ton. There is a mountain of tricks still to be discovered.

Spoiler:

GS/High elf specialize in open field fighting with snare's and rapid fast morale bombs.
Dwarves/Chaos specialize in keep defense with defensive morale cycle's and outrageously high morale bombs.
Dark elf/Empire specialize in keep offense with retarded high burst potential. (WE/WH originally were the only classes to bypass the postern door, other mdps did not have access to that.)

Chaos = Empire (Empire dominates open field, hard time kicking chaos out of keeps)
Chaos > Dwarves (Dwarves are about armor, Chaos don't care about armor)
Chaos < High elf (Chaos are about resists, High elfs don't care about resists, HE has fastest morale bombs in game.)

Greenskin = Dwarves (GS dominates open field but can't kick Dwarves out of keeps, Dwarves have too much resource morale bomb)
Greenskin > Empire (super fast morale bombs from GS. GS will be half dead vs Empire but the morale bomb will get em, player's underestimate the power of en masse instant rezing. Empire will constantly be pre-occupied and can't recover as fast as GS, GS will attrition them to death)
Greenskin < High elf (Have all the tools to dismantle GS)

Dark elf = High elf (high burst from DE don't matter against HE because of instant rezing)
Dark elf < Dwarves (dwarf defensive morale cycle's are boss)
Dark elf > empire (I just don't know on this one, This is speculation. I know DE can get highest avoidence in game with 1001 blessings.)

[Foltestik]

Dwarfs have shity setup:
only 4 or 5 healers same not rank 40
and no dps at all, they have maybee 2 slayers and many rift engies who doesnt any dmg

at last fight they at least try to have same IBs train on healers and that can be pain, but in 1 and 2 fight i dont even heal

[Glorian]

Dwarf Setup was:

7 RP, 6 ENG, 2 SL, 9 IB

And yes two of the RPs were only part time Healers.
And yes, a lot of Slayers would have worked better, but I can only Inivte what I have at hand at that moment. And some slayers sleeped through the event in their home caves.

[Tamarlan]

Chaos > Empire
Chaos > High Elf
Chaos > Dwarfs

High Elf > Dark Elf
High Elf < Greenskin

Dwarf > Greenskin if Dwarf plays smart [still intense]
Dwarf < Dark Elf

Empire > Greenskin, GS might win if plays smart.
Empire > Dark

Race might matter but ingame other factors are way more important. I would easily bet that Phalanx & Friends win even on the worst race.

[footpatrol2]

Race might matter but ingame other factors are way more important. I would easily bet that Phalanx & Friends win even on the worst race.

100% agree. This game breaks down into who has better organization/coordination skills and discipline of your team. It is extremely rare that teams are evenly matched in organization/coordination and discipline.

Mountain spirit used to last 30 sec's and its on your RP's so they are backline which is out of range of mass mara morale drain. Mountain spirit is super boss combined with regenerative runes tactic on the RP. That combo provides 2.4k extra armor and 500 additional resists + armor tactic is 3k extra armor. So that would have helped.

With correct AoR morale gain rates of 36 morale per sec you could had mountain spirit up in 20 sec's along with armored plating.

With correct morale gain rates AND racial morale gain tactic AND banner's you could of had mountain spirit along with armored plating up in 12 sec's.

Chaos could have morale bombed with mara's at 12 sec's also thou which is 7 x 1200 = 8400 morale bomb. You have to AoE punt when the morale bomb starts going off to break it up. Chaos lacks any type of a aoe snare that isn't coming from the rift or a m4 which is a weakness of the race.

You could have kept the majority of the mara assist train snared with 2 or 4 cross guarding brotherhood IB's cycling earthshatter and bought you some time. You can snare entire warbands that way. Guard two slayer's cycling shatter limbs over mara assist train will drastically reduce the damage output of the mara assist train. Slayer's can't be cleansed by chaos also... so

The match up is still bad thou especially with incorrect morale gain rates and mountain spirit being reduced to 10 sec's.

[roadkillrobin]

We all knew how this was going to go with the morale and melee train. Would not recommend doing again unless it can actually be a competition. Good idea in concept but Order just doesn't have the meta for it currently.

Here we go again again, blaming the "bugged" morale tactics.
We didn't use Morale tactics in 2 of the 3 fights. Coz that was the arrangement. When it comes to morale dumps, Marauders have a massive advantage of having a really OP 1200 damage M2 while Dwarfs don't at all. Marauders doesn't have a morale pump tactic.
Chosen having acess to Raze eariler then Marauders have their M2 is completly irrelevant here coz Morale dumps needs to be much stronger then just Tanks dropping Raze. Raze is just to weak to perform on it's own. You need to sync it with other morales or dps cooldowns if you want any kiling effect from it.
The problem is, and will always be M2 and M3 AoE Morale damage abilities. Not morale pumps.

[Foltestik]

Mountain spirit used to last 30 sec's and its on your RP's so they are backline which is out of range of mass mara morale drain. Mountain spirit is super boss combined with regenerative runes tactic on the RP. That combo provides 2.4k extra armor and 500 additional resists + armor tactic is 3k extra armor. So that would have helped.

noone will use mountain spirit if he can use focus mind ....

and if you wanna have 30s morale back ... chosen have M3 Sprout Carapace stackable with DoKs 1001bleesing and i think noone wanna have this time back 2 chosen and 2 DoKs perma immortal army

[roadkillrobin]

30 Sec Mountain Spirit that stacks with abilties/potions was deffintly better then FM back in the days.

As for SC and 1001db stacking. That was a problem due to morale stacking with other morales.

[footpatrol2]

One of the main reason's why I state that High elves beat chaos

Spoiler:

is outrider patrol m2 from the SW. 1200 damage AE 20 ft at 100ft range. Probably the best morale in the game which is completely overlooked by the community. Take 6 to 8 SW in a warband have them single target assist on the same target and now you got a at ranged morale bomb. 6 x 1200 = 7200. Instead of going full 2/2/2 set ups only take two groups of 2/2/2 and two groups of 4 SW and two heally AM's.

Outrider patrol is Achievable at one time in this game at 12 sec's if you cared about morale gain rates which you should.

Chaos dominates close combat. Chaos also dominates close combat in the warhammer fantasy tabletop which this game is based on. It is suicide to try to close combat chaos in the tabletop which is represented in this game.

High elves can dominate range if they build to it. High elves can dominate range also in warhammer fantasy tabletop if they build to it, which is again represented in this game.

The game play's 100% differently at the warband scale.

Raze is literally kitten's play to what this game can do especially at the warband level.

This game is just designed to be a lot faster then what player's think it should be and that is ok and not bad design.
There is a ton of counter play to morale bombs but you need the correct morale gain rates.

Put it in a spoiler to not derail.