White lion Pounce

[Foxbeep]

While this is true Shadow Sting Arrow was considered "low-hanging fruit" IIRC

I don't see how that's a reason to move it so deep into the tree, every shaman picks up sticky feets and that's a rank 21 ability.

This isn't a Shadow Sting thread anyways, just was curious about tier-specific inquiries.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

You don't get it. Nobody cares about problems that only exist in T1, or T2, or T3. Accordingly we are not going to act on anything until T4.

Let us hope it takes some time to get to t4. Having mount gunbad and bastions stairs plus small lvl cap increases would make our experience far more enjoyable than having t4 (lvl 40) right now. Ofc thats just my opinion.

[Luranni]

It is bad to say anything on basis of T3, wait for T4. Most likely case is that all these WL's that run about now will end up rerolling slayer when the T4 comes around.

I think the point is that WL have -already- had what players may feel to be an unfair level of tinkering resulting in an ability that performs a heck of a lot better than it ever did on live; to the extent that it can be used in a very exploitative fashion.

Things to also consider:
- There is no mention of the Pounce changes in the first post of "Intentional Changes From Live" (Stealth calcs and other stuff also missing, but not relevant to this topic themselves)
- People that post about it or ask about it are shut down (often very rudely), which leads to more emotional posts
- Repeated shutting down of said posts without resolution results in yet more of the same being posted with regularity
- Other buff/nerf posts are often shut down (or completely ignored) with the statement "this is how it was on live, so this is how it stays for now", and yet WL Pounce most definitely does not fit that logic***
- The lack of clarity on what is, and isn't ability exploiting and who will, or will not be banned

Throw all the above together and you end up with a hot mess of confused and frustrated players.

***Yes, I am aware of other tweaks.

Some suggestions (a little off-topic):

New Sticky:
1) Topic titled "IMPORTANT: Differences to live, intentional changes, usage & reporting" or something
2) This post should actually have all of the changes that are supposed to be in the "Intentional Changes..." thread, as well as details on the bigger class-related things that just can't be fixed or changed right now
3) It would also help to have the logic for those changes included (why this was a deserving exception to the "stays like live until T4" mantra, for example) so people can read and understand the train of thought
4) Include a guideline on bugged abilities and the punishment for abusing them
5) Details of how and where to report said abuse

I'm sure everyone can agree that more clarity in easy to find places will help, people who miss this can be easily directed to the new Sticky via link which also saves the GMs some time and helps prevent misleading, emotional or unhelpful posts.

Forum Manners & Healthy Discussion:
I see a hell of a lot of rudeness flying around here and I honestly find it extremely childish and detrimental to any proper discussion. It would help greatly and encourage more people to post and get involved if there were punishments for outright insults and bullying (calling people pricks and cunts for posting their opinions should not be tolerated, should it), or at least the removal of those posts to keep things civil and productive.

GameMasters
Get some actual Destro GMs in, just for customer service type roles (passing on info to the correct places, giving the correct info to players etc) where they can be visible and available as it's kinda crushing to do .gmlist and only see Order GMs. This may not seem like a huge deal but it certainly adds to all the feelings of bias and favouritism.

Well sorry I got a bit off-track, but I think all these forum posts have the same root problems causing heightened emotions and degrading good debate and it's bad for all of us.

[Scrilian]

Spoiler:

It is bad to say anything on basis of T3, wait for T4. Most likely case is that all these WL's that run about now will end up rerolling slayer when the T4 comes around.

I think the point is that WL have -already- had what players may feel to be an unfair level of tinkering resulting in an ability that performs a heck of a lot better than it ever did on live; to the extent that it can be used in a very exploitative fashion.

Things to also consider:
- There is no mention of the Pounce changes in the first post of "Intentional Changes From Live" (Stealth calcs and other stuff also missing, but not relevant to this topic themselves)
- People that post about it or ask about it are shut down (often very rudely), which leads to more emotional posts
- Repeated shutting down of said posts without resolution results in yet more of the same being posted with regularity
- Other buff/nerf posts are often shut down (or completely ignored) with the statement "this is how it was on live, so this is how it stays for now", and yet WL Pounce most definitely does not fit that logic***
- The lack of clarity on what is, and isn't ability exploiting and who will, or will not be banned

Throw all the above together and you end up with a hot mess of confused and frustrated players.

***Yes, I am aware of other tweaks.

Some suggestions (a little off-topic):

New Sticky:
1) Topic titled "IMPORTANT: Differences to live, intentional changes, usage & reporting" or something
2) This post should actually have all of the changes that are supposed to be in the "Intentional Changes..." thread, as well as details on the bigger class-related things that just can't be fixed or changed right now
3) It would also help to have the logic for those changes included (why this was a deserving exception to the "stays like live until T4" mantra, for example) so people can read and understand the train of thought
4) Include a guideline on bugged abilities and the punishment for abusing them
5) Details of how and where to report said abuse

I'm sure everyone can agree that more clarity in easy to find places will help, people who miss this can be easily directed to the new Sticky via link which also saves the GMs some time and helps prevent misleading, emotional or unhelpful posts.

Forum Manners & Healthy Discussion:
I see a hell of a lot of rudeness flying around here and I honestly find it extremely childish and detrimental to any proper discussion. It would help greatly and encourage more people to post and get involved if there were punishments for outright insults and bullying (calling people pricks and cunts for posting their opinions should not be tolerated, should it), or at least the removal of those posts to keep things civil and productive.

GameMasters
Get some actual Destro GMs in, just for customer service type roles (passing on info to the correct places, giving the correct info to players etc) where they can be visible and available as it's kinda crushing to do .gmlist and only see Order GMs. This may not seem like a huge deal but it certainly adds to all the feelings of bias and favouritism.

Well sorry I got a bit off-track, but I think all these forum posts have the same root problems causing heightened emotions and degrading good debate and it's bad for all of us.

Too long, didn't read. I'm here just to enjoy the beauty of your signature

[Luranni]

Too long, didn't read. I'm here just to enjoy the beauty of your signature

Thanks, dear .

[Koryu199X]

Was thinking about pounce, I actually played a white lion during the live game and personally I found it was over used then. If it's not going to have the z-axis changed please at least implement a cool down of 20 seconds and make it more tactical in its use and application at some point down the line. Part of the enjoyment should be tactical thinking and strategy. In addition it should not be useable in mid air that never made sense in live and it doesn't now.

[Tesq]

You don't get it. Nobody cares about problems that only exist in T1, or T2, or T3. Accordingly we are not going to act on anything until T4.

Let us hope it takes some time to get to t4. Having mount gunbad and bastions stairs plus small lvl cap increases would make our experience far more enjoyable than having t4 (lvl 40) right now. Ofc thats just my opinion.

it really do not miss a lot, lotd, and bastion stairs are t4 stuff.
the only t3 stuff not implemented yet is gunband.
Which make the relevant stuff not implmented all linked to loot chest/siege weapons + missing renown skill.

it may be a long work fix 3x3 zones + lotd + city istances but is not a lot what remain; the game is really in a almost advanced state; the work done until know is stunning.

[Jaycub]

@Luranni

Pounce wasn't changed from live IIR only bug fixed

@Koryu

Giving pounce a 20 sec CD would remove virtually all tactical thinking and strategy that currently exists with pounce.

[Tklees]

Too long, didn't read. I'm here just to enjoy the beauty of your signature

Thanks, dear .

The change made to pounce was not to change the abilities attributes. It's the same ability from live. They just fixed a bug with it no reaching to z axis. So it was not a change from live as you so put it as much as it was a bug fix.

[Manolitow]

We're not doing anything else to any class until we reach T4.

But for nerfing the W O I on zealot we can do it before T4... very impartial