SW weakest class?

[drmordread]

A few things about the SW everyone forgets or ignores because it is in their best interests to;

1- Changing stances on the fly is sometimes impossible due to the lag inherent in the game. WAR is a laggy game period! So telling someone to change stances in order to do something (like detaunt for instance) and then change back, or go through the stances to apply certain abilities, is rubbish.
Example; If you want to disarm, KD, detaunt, self punt and flee or rapid fire. you need to go through two stances. Also the SW disarm is a 5ft melee ability compared to the SH ranged. And the SH gets another ability like that through the use of a squig (I forget which one).

2- Fester Bomb is only a problem in the lower tiers. When t4 shows up with all the resists and buffs of t4 armor sets, and abilities of fellow grp members, a nerfed FB (as we have now) will be completely useless. But whatever, only fail SW's rely on one chain (FB and its specced for tactic) for kills. So leaving it nerfed is fine, just another nerf to an already weak class, (In comparison to its mirror the SH which is as everyone agrees, way too OP and NEEDS to be nerfed).

3- Heal Debuff;
Can we please move it back down to the 5 spot? It being in no9 is retarded. It is a key debuff and you are forcing all SW's to spec up a weak tree in order to have it.
I know the old tired argument .... "other classes have it 9, so should the SW" .... These other classes also have the debuff on viable strong trees, so that argument is so invalid it is laughable!

Conclusion;
Even with the FB nerf, moving the heal debuff back down to 5 makes the SW a viable t4 class when combined with grp crit tactic. Other than a spammable heal debuff and crit to grp, the SW has nothing else to make it needed and viable option in a / for group play.

[Ravai]

3- Heal Debuff;
Can we please move it back down to the 5 spot? It being in no9 is retarded. It is a key debuff and you are forcing all SW's to spec up a weak tree in order to have it.
I know the old tired argument .... "other classes have it 9, so should the SW" .... These other classes also have the debuff on viable strong trees, so that argument is so invalid it is laughable!

Conclusion;
Even with the FB nerf, moving the heal debuff back down to 5 makes the SW a viable t4 class when combined with grp crit tactic. Other than a spammable heal debuff and crit to grp, the SW has nothing else to make it needed and viable option in a / for group play.

While I appreciate your passion to improve a class that is currently fine as it is, it makes no difference what position the heal debuff is in the mastery tree as you'll still be spending 12 points whatever spec you go for powerful draw (50% range increase)

Oh and skirmish is far from a weak tree. with the range kd on 20s cd and them having vengeance/m2 pressure they will always be top tier range dps.

[AustreV]

3- Heal Debuff;
Can we please move it back down to the 5 spot? It being in no9 is retarded. It is a key debuff and you are forcing all SW's to spec up a weak tree in order to have it.
I know the old tired argument .... "other classes have it 9, so should the SW" .... These other classes also have the debuff on viable strong trees, so that argument is so invalid it is laughable!

Conclusion;
Even with the FB nerf, moving the heal debuff back down to 5 makes the SW a viable t4 class when combined with grp crit tactic. Other than a spammable heal debuff and crit to grp, the SW has nothing else to make it needed and viable option in a / for group play.

While I appreciate your passion to improve a class that is currently fine as it is, it makes no difference what position the heal debuff is in the mastery tree as you'll still be spending 12 points whatever spec you go for powerful draw (50% range increase)

Oh and skirmish is far from a weak tree. with the range kd on 20s cd and them having vengeance/m2 pressure they will always be top tier range dps.

1) Its fine for those ppl who not playing that class. - fact.
2) Top tier dps without range. On T3 u cant make Range + normal dps in melee. On T4 u can try, but u miss one slot. Top dps from melee its sounds "fun". In fact Skirmish was desighned for 1 on 1 or for small scale battles 7x7 (cause u got no aoe at all, and basic range 65ft without control) so tell me how you will get 2nd morale before you die or battle end. In massive battle u nothing without range and u wont get guard also and u havent effective AOE, so its not top at all. Its just a luck to take m2 in small scale battles like 14x14 and killsomeone cause he thought you not in melee spec. (for mara or choppa). So its all sounds weird.

[Ravai]

1) Been playing the class this week pure skirmish solo and small man, and played it a lot on live (mostly cheese festerbomb tho) I'm giving a completely unbiased opinion here, class seems fine from both sides of the fence, if you think otherwise maybe your not geared correctly or not able to comfortably kite people yet?

2) - Your either confusing assault with skirmish or didn't understood my post, I said you NEED the range tactic or the class is useless, your reply here suggests I am running around as an unguarded melee sw getting wrecked before m2.

[AustreV]

1) Been playing the class this week pure skirmish solo and small man, and played it a lot on live (mostly cheese festerbomb tho) I'm giving a completely unbiased opinion here, class seems fine from both sides of the fence, if you think otherwise maybe your not geared correctly or not able to comfortably kite people yet?

2) - Your either confusing assault with skirmish or didn't understood my post, I said you NEED the range tactic or the class is useless, your reply here suggests I am running around as an unguarded melee sw getting wrecked before m2.

well sry, my bet, assault one - melee.*

[Vdova]

A few things about the SW everyone forgets or ignores because it is in their best interests to;

1- Changing stances on the fly is sometimes impossible due to the lag inherent in the game. WAR is a laggy game period! So telling someone to change stances in order to do something (like detaunt for instance) and then change back, or go through the stances to apply certain abilities, is rubbish.
Example; If you want to disarm, KD, detaunt, self punt and flee or rapid fire. you need to go through two stances. Also the SW disarm is a 5ft melee ability compared to the SH ranged. And the SH gets another ability like that through the use of a squig (I forget which one).

2- Fester Bomb is only a problem in the lower tiers. When t4 shows up with all the resists and buffs of t4 armor sets, and abilities of fellow grp members, a nerfed FB (as we have now) will be completely useless. But whatever, only fail SW's rely on one chain (FB and its specced for tactic) for kills. So leaving it nerfed is fine, just another nerf to an already weak class, (In comparison to its mirror the SH which is as everyone agrees, way too OP and NEEDS to be nerfed).

3- Heal Debuff;
Can we please move it back down to the 5 spot? It being in no9 is retarded. It is a key debuff and you are forcing all SW's to spec up a weak tree in order to have it.
I know the old tired argument .... "other classes have it 9, so should the SW" .... These other classes also have the debuff on viable strong trees, so that argument is so invalid it is laughable!

Conclusion;
Even with the FB nerf, moving the heal debuff back down to 5 makes the SW a viable t4 class when combined with grp crit tactic. Other than a spammable heal debuff and crit to grp, the SW has nothing else to make it needed and viable option in a / for group play.

1) SWs topping DBS and dmg charts in 75% scenarios

2) Sws skirmisher tree is great and much more effective than its mirror(Squig herder) SW has - higher overal base dmg on all abbilities and flanking shoot hits more than twice hard and has critical chance formula in it

3) SH is not OP and definitely dont need any nerfs(No ranged KD, only disarm). All of his base dmg is much less than SW ones, he has no acces to bypas rezistence with tactic like SW. SH has run away tactic which is not that great with all ranged KDs and pounces order hass in lakes and scenarios. I have been playing with it for 1 week and it saved me maybe once, again slayer when there was magicaly no SW or WL around.

4) On live in T4 with all armor sets and rezists, SW was still able to nearly one (M2 + Fernster + insta cast Fell the weak)
If 3.8 - 4.2k crits at the moment after nerf is still low for You, I dont know what to say....

[AustreV]

A few things about the SW everyone forgets or ignores because it is in their best interests to;

1- Changing stances on the fly is sometimes impossible due to the lag inherent in the game. WAR is a laggy game period! So telling someone to change stances in order to do something (like detaunt for instance) and then change back, or go through the stances to apply certain abilities, is rubbish.
Example; If you want to disarm, KD, detaunt, self punt and flee or rapid fire. you need to go through two stances. Also the SW disarm is a 5ft melee ability compared to the SH ranged. And the SH gets another ability like that through the use of a squig (I forget which one).

2- Fester Bomb is only a problem in the lower tiers. When t4 shows up with all the resists and buffs of t4 armor sets, and abilities of fellow grp members, a nerfed FB (as we have now) will be completely useless. But whatever, only fail SW's rely on one chain (FB and its specced for tactic) for kills. So leaving it nerfed is fine, just another nerf to an already weak class, (In comparison to its mirror the SH which is as everyone agrees, way too OP and NEEDS to be nerfed).

3- Heal Debuff;
Can we please move it back down to the 5 spot? It being in no9 is retarded. It is a key debuff and you are forcing all SW's to spec up a weak tree in order to have it.
I know the old tired argument .... "other classes have it 9, so should the SW" .... These other classes also have the debuff on viable strong trees, so that argument is so invalid it is laughable!

Conclusion;
Even with the FB nerf, moving the heal debuff back down to 5 makes the SW a viable t4 class when combined with grp crit tactic. Other than a spammable heal debuff and crit to grp, the SW has nothing else to make it needed and viable option in a / for group play.

1) SWs topping DBS and dmg charts in 75% scenarios

2) Sws skirmisher tree is great and much more effective than its mirror(Squig herder) SW has - higher overal base dmg on all abbilities and flanking shoot hits more than twice hard and has critical chance formula in it

3) SH is not OP and definitely dont need any nerfs(No ranged KD, only disarm). All of his base dmg is much less than SW ones, he has no acces to bypas rezistence with tactic like SW. SH has run away tactic which is not that great with all ranged KDs and pounces order hass in lakes and scenarios. I have been playing with it for 1 week and it saved me maybe once, again slayer when there was magicaly no SW or WL around.

4) On live in T4 with all armor sets and rezists, SW was still able to nearly one (M2 + Fernster + insta cast Fell the weak)
If 3.8 - 4.2k crits at the moment after nerf is still low for You, I dont know what to say....

1)Magical numbers again. Was having 3500 dmg to tank with all abilities once on 35 per 2-3hours.
2) SH can force SW to stuck in pvp with only pet and you loose half his HP in 3 seconds or more if you dint used detaunt on it. If u wont push detaunt 80% u will die first if SH is "normal+" player.
3) SW has no burst, SH has.
4) Fester with all abilities As i said its 7 second casting in right timing (all stuff) is super slow, I mean its slowest ever in RoR, you cant move and enemy can break cast or defend againts this skill in many ways.

[Koha]

Don't forget we're playing something very close to T4 (lvl 35 high stats) but with quite low armor.

Wait for T4 and skirmisher SW will get back to a support role.

For the scout SW : one shooting a grey target once a minute olol. BW and Sorcs are PUG killers every 10sec.
Scout SW targetting a premade ? you really somebody to make a mistake to kill something.

[bangkokeight]

Just a thought but isnt this whole conversation brought on by the fact that the sw nerf patch on live removed VoN dependancies?

Why do i say this? simple, pre nerf to have the kd (which was on takedown, not on eyeshot) you needed to have VoN (which had a longer cd) up. This gave SW a choice between using a KD or using a complete festerbomb. If you blew you VoN on a fester rotation you basically left your self with a snare as your only cc (self punt was brought in during the same patch).

Instead of nerfing Fester the way it was done, perhaps , once t4 is launched of course, a compromise would be to bring back VoN dependancy on the kd and inncrease its cooldown back to the way it was.

This would bring it into line with the other SW tactics which gave +ve offense but with -ves for defences (such as bullseye, instinctive aim etc). Let the SW decide to nerf his offense or or gamble that he doesnt need the defense.

just my two satang.

[Vdova]

A few things about the SW everyone forgets or ignores because it is in their best interests to;

1- Changing stances on the fly is sometimes impossible due to the lag inherent in the game. WAR is a laggy game period! So telling someone to change stances in order to do something (like detaunt for instance) and then change back, or go through the stances to apply certain abilities, is rubbish.
Example; If you want to disarm, KD, detaunt, self punt and flee or rapid fire. you need to go through two stances. Also the SW disarm is a 5ft melee ability compared to the SH ranged. And the SH gets another ability like that through the use of a squig (I forget which one).

2- Fester Bomb is only a problem in the lower tiers. When t4 shows up with all the resists and buffs of t4 armor sets, and abilities of fellow grp members, a nerfed FB (as we have now) will be completely useless. But whatever, only fail SW's rely on one chain (FB and its specced for tactic) for kills. So leaving it nerfed is fine, just another nerf to an already weak class, (In comparison to its mirror the SH which is as everyone agrees, way too OP and NEEDS to be nerfed).

3- Heal Debuff;
Can we please move it back down to the 5 spot? It being in no9 is retarded. It is a key debuff and you are forcing all SW's to spec up a weak tree in order to have it.
I know the old tired argument .... "other classes have it 9, so should the SW" .... These other classes also have the debuff on viable strong trees, so that argument is so invalid it is laughable!

Conclusion;
Even with the FB nerf, moving the heal debuff back down to 5 makes the SW a viable t4 class when combined with grp crit tactic. Other than a spammable heal debuff and crit to grp, the SW has nothing else to make it needed and viable option in a / for group play.

1) SWs topping DBS and dmg charts in 75% scenarios

2) Sws skirmisher tree is great and much more effective than its mirror(Squig herder) SW has - higher overal base dmg on all abbilities and flanking shoot hits more than twice hard and has critical chance formula in it

3) SH is not OP and definitely dont need any nerfs(No ranged KD, only disarm). All of his base dmg is much less than SW ones, he has no acces to bypas rezistence with tactic like SW. SH has run away tactic which is not that great with all ranged KDs and pounces order hass in lakes and scenarios. I have been playing with it for 1 week and it saved me maybe once, again slayer when there was magicaly no SW or WL around.

4) On live in T4 with all armor sets and rezists, SW was still able to nearly one (M2 + Fernster + insta cast Fell the weak)
If 3.8 - 4.2k crits at the moment after nerf is still low for You, I dont know what to say....

1)Magical numbers again. Was having 3500 dmg to tank with all abilities once on 35 per 2-3hours.
2) SH can force SW to stuck in pvp with only pet and you loose half his HP in 3 seconds or more if you dint used detaunt on it. If u wont push detaunt 80% u will die first if SH is "normal+" player.
3) SW has no burst, SH has.
4) Fester with all abilities As i said its 7 second casting in right timing (all stuff) is super slow, I mean its slowest ever in RoR, you cant move and enemy can break cast or defend againts this skill in many ways.

SH lower base skills dmg + pet dmg is comparable to SW without self 25% dmg buff(vengeance). SW with vengeance over dps SH by a mile not to mention it has only 30s CD and ofcourse magic trick GG win button ranged KD! Under disarm/silence, You can still run to safety, pot, detaunt, find cover, use absorb/cleans morale,etc. Under knockdown, You cant do anything but wait for quick death.
SW has same even better burst than SH especialy with vengeance UP.

Magic numbers I gave You on my previous post is crits from SWs to my SHs after fernster "nerf". SW also synergies better with group. 15% crit for party tactic(more usable in T4 with 4th tactic slot), up to 20% more crit chance from SnB kotbs, OR 20% more crit chance just thanks to bullseye( in T4)