Renown cap lift

[labotimy]

Who the **** is complaining about this?

Saw someone say this isn't a grind game, did you guys even play before 100 patch?
Jesus titty **** Christ, It is THE best incentive to stop X-realiming. It is THE best incentive to find AAO.

So, pick a main, have some fun.

My single gripe is that RR is locked to level, no need for it now in my opinion.

I was just about to mention this. Originally it took foooooooooorever to get RR80. They patched easymode into the game for casuals complaining about power creep, and RR80 being way to hard to achieve/grind. Their solution was to add more power creep, but allow you to reach it faster. Brilliant.

[Azarael]

In 2008 the gameplay held up on its own, a perfected version(which is hard to do) would hold up in 2016 and a little longer.

I am not averse to at least trying to perfect things and add some depth, but it has to be understood that I'm not willing to throw myself at walls of resistance based on traditional MMO lines (the ones I explained in my previous post) if I/we try to solve issues such as extreme power gaps, minmaxing and balance flaws. Right now I feel stuck in the middle - between the idealism of fixing the game and what I suspect to the reality - that the effort will be wasted, as a lot of people play MMOs for exactly the flaws I want to resolve.

I would personally love it if this game didn't have to rely on grind and power creep to get by. Really, I would. I have neither time nor inclination for extreme grind and that's why I don't in general play MMOs or any other game which involves forcing you to grind either to start playing the game properly (MMOs), or to maintain your ability to play the game (MMOs and certain freemium games). That mentality about a game is like the developer saying to me "I'm not confident about my main gameplay, so I'm going to put it behind a grind/maintenance wall and hope that you value it more because you can't always participate in it when you want to."

If anyone's going to point out the "hypocrisy" of what was done with the cap increase: remember that I'm not really a natural MMO player. I'm not doing this because it's what I'd like. I'm doing it because it's a key part of what the majority of MMO players need.

[PartizanRUS]

At long last, renown grind can start again :]

[Euan]

Well this thread turned out pretty much as I expected it to.

A number of you are complaining about power gaps. I'm going to do something I swore I would never do here and go into full elitist mode.

You're playing an MMO. These games are specifically designed to appeal to the following types of players:

- Socialites
- Explorers (lore fanatics, etc)
- Achievers (vertical progression, collection of gear, etc)
- People who can't hack it in pure skill-based games and deliberately choose games which allow them to have an advantage over other players because they played the game longer.

Please note that this is not an exclusive list - exceptions exist. The makeup of any individual player may also be a mix of all these types. However, these are the main bases for any MMO.

MMOs in general sacrifice heavily depth of mechanics and individual skill, partly because their system of having so many abilities does not mesh well with a fully skill-based control for them, partly because they support so many players at one time that the processing power required to implement intensive mechanics like FPS-style play exceeds the limit of any server that could be economically acquired, and partly because it is in the intent of the design to limit the skillcap in order to create mass appeal.

I'm sure at this point people are going to raise the 6v6 guilds and how they reliably crush opposition. True. I didn't say that there's no skill in the game and that sufficiently organized groups of players cannot reliably exert dominance over others. If you're determined enough, you can carve out a niche in most games. But the fact that 6v6ers are actively denigrated by some segments of the community and told that the game isn't about them (which is true, it isn't) just highlights that the intent of this game was never to appeal to skill.

In short, if you are going to make the argument that vertical progression is bullshit and that MMOs create a crappy situation in which players with more time played have an advantage over players with less time played which is not accomplished by natural improvement in their skill over time? I'd agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, this is an MMO, and it relies upon those bullshit factors to operate. As Jaycub pointed out - the gameplay is not strong enough to stand on its own. If that's not to your taste, and I'll readily admit that it isn't to mine... then there are plenty of other genres around that are based on raw skill and nothing else.

It isn't a bad thing that there are people to whom this kind of design appeals. Play something like StarCraft or Street Fighter and you can get dominated by players that are a little better than you. I won't talk down to anyone who doesn't think that that is fun, or to whom that doesn't appeal. But I think it's very important to be honest about what exactly this and other games like it are, and why they were made in the way that they were. You either make your game to appeal to skilled players first and foremost, or you make it to appeal to a broader base, making sacrifices against the skilled players in order to preserve your main base. Unless you're a development God and have such good matchmaking and design that you can make your game easy to pick up and play yet filled with depth at the top levels - and separate out the skilled players from the casual players using your matchmaking - you have to choose.

At least you're being honest now instead of the usual "stop feeling entitled" bs. I do prefer equal footing though. I don't really want to talk down to but it's quite sad you're scared to lose your playerbase over this. Even if it takes players 3x longer, if players will quit when they reach 80 because of gameplay, you're only delaying the inevitable. I disagree. I think war has a very unique PvP, especially scenarios. I think you ought to make a matchmaking that matches solo queuers. 2 tanks 2 healers and 2 dps. It appeals to casuals and try hards alike. I have to ask if there will ever be a point where you remove the renown reduction?

[Azarael]

We will progressively increase the rank at which the renown reduction kicks in over time.

As for why I'm being so direct now: I mentioned it in my post. I expected to be flamed to hell for what I mentioned but I guess there must be some truth in it. You're correct that any solution is delaying the inevitable, but that's why MMOs apart from WoW have a high turnover rate - the games are usually much more heavily constrained by the available content and progression than a high skillcap game would be, and they are very much reliant on power creep.

Truth is, I don't know what the eventual solution to this problem is going to be or if there's ever going to be one. There's a limit to how much of this game can change before it stops being Warhammer Online, and I don't believe additional content will keep the game going unless vertical progression and power gaps remain.

[navis]

To those concerned about the -25% accumulation rate, don't worry. This is good, and later when there is things like
-renown weekend
-standards
-aegis/other
-realm/fort bonus
there will be more than lots of renown, if anything i would reduce it to -33%.
cheers

[Akalukz]

vertical progression is a must, no doubt, I don't think you went far enough in the scaling down of renown gain. People will chase 5% as much as 25%.

[Euan]

My suggestions:

-Be nicer to your playerbase (feels like they're taken for granted)
-Set up soloqueue matchmaking 6v6 2/2/2
-continue on renown after 80 offering cosmetic items + titles
-have events rewarding cosmetic items
-monthly newsletter to connect with player base letting them know what's going on
-support the 6v6 premades somehow with items or titles
-possibly add a 1v1 instance ( it doens't have to be balanced)

I don't know. I quit when RR100 ranks were added becaues I wasn't about to grind to 100. I'm wondering why you guys were opposed to RR100 or was that to appeal to the mass? It serves your purpose in prolonging the game. I'm not sure if you're able to make new items or not.

[Luicetarro]

My suggestions:

-Be nicer to your playerbase (feels like they're taken for granted)
-Set up soloqueue matchmaking 6v6 2/2/2
-continue on renown after 80 offering cosmetic items + titles
-have events rewarding cosmetic items
-monthly newsletter to connect with player base letting them know what's going on
-support the 6v6 premades somehow with items or titles
-possibly add a 1v1 instance ( it doens't have to be balanced)

I don't know. I quit when RR100 ranks were added becaues I wasn't about to grind to 100. I'm wondering why you guys were opposed to RR100 or was that to appeal to the mass? It serves your purpose in prolonging the game. I'm not sure if you're able to make new items or not.

I rather have ppl talking like they actually do, instead of this 'Oh, we have to be nice to everyone, even if they flame us'-nonsense.

They just added cosmetic gear, for the bday-event. So they can and will do that.

New gear already was added. So they can and will do that as well, if they think it does fit.

Why reward 6v6 premades? They actually have the reward of winning most of their stuff, getting endgame faster.

Monthly newsletter? If they would do that, ppl would bug them all the time to press on certain things, or try to make them focus something else first (a.k.a. What?!?!? You're not working on PQs RIGHT NOW!?!??!?? DOOOOO ITTTTTTT JERKSSSSS!!! incoming).

Offering more cosmetic items will need time. Time they currently are investing in more important things (in their free time).

Matchmaking was set to 2/2/2. But the system will fail if someone doesn't take the popup. Ppl complained ques took too long. So... what now?

[Gerv]

Your argument does not hold water, however, as the Devs have said on numerous occasions that they do not care about player numbers as the game is at Alpha phase. Therefore, what is the real rationale for introducing the RR89 and have the consequences been considered?

Please note, I am not against RR increases, however I am against power creep and gaps that this invariably introduces. We all know what happened at Live with RR80 etc when new T4 players were slaughtered and thus I would implore the Devs to seek avenues to minimise the power gap. Higher RR should give some shinies, but in the shape of cosmetic gear or other things that do not create a discouraging gap between high and low-end T4 players. If they don't, then I truly hope that they don't care about player numbers as the game will only go one way.

Yes, it was not very clear, I will try again.
I believe the power creep will not be as bad as you expect. The additional renwon ranks will take a long time to achieve. Yes, the first 10 will be shortish, but I do not believe that the additional 10 rr points and 1 mastery point will make a huge difference. I will be making a tally of the renown rank gains each week, recording the highest rank and the number of players within 3 renown ranks of this to give us all some look at how this is effecting people. Some classes and specs will get better, no doubt but overall, I do not think it will be any different from the 40/40 players fighting new players.

I disagree with your comment in regards to renown rank 80 players stomping others. I believe it was more due to the sovereign gear and the procs and full set bonuses that were miles better than the warlord gear which made the renown rank 80 players better.

Fundamentally, I believe that players need some form of character progression to keep playing, however I do not believe that cosmetic gear is enough, this renown increase provides some players with this progression they need to keep playing and an incentive to get out in the RvR lakes because you can make more renown from fights, if they are present than currently in scenarios in NA time.