Changelog 29/11/16

[Penril]

Keep this thread civil and free of personal attacks. There won't be another warning.

[blaqwar]

Because they are ranged pets and thus more difficult to kill then a WL pet, which has to go in melee range and thus the danger zone?

It's interesting to see how none of the SHs every spoke out for the WL pet, which suffers the same issues as a SH pet but where it is significantly exacerbated because they have to be in melee range (i.e. suffer much more from pet pathing, unresponsiveness to commands, CC, etc).

True, I'd never argue for such a change before this patch. But with the current HP on the squigs a WL pouncing on one can kill it in 1, maybe 2 abilities along with an AA. Meanwhile, if I'm not mistaken lions got a slight buff to survivability this patch?

Again, that's fair given that they are melee pets. Try taking a WL into a medium-sized fight and see how quickly your pet dies. There is a reason why WLs have absolutely zero place in WB-sized fights, whilst SHs are much more forgiving as they can stand on the edges.

You're arguing that they needed a change - nerf to pet damage and range. Fine, they got that. Is a nerf to pet survivability/uptime warranted in this case? The patch moves the pet closer to the enemy and makes it easier to kill, that is a double nerf, a fact that is easy to overlook. The overall effectiveness of the career might dip severely after this, without adressing some of the issues they have.

If you can't see that this patch supplied a nerf to SEVERAL aspects of a Squig Herder and the overall effectiveness of the career has been impacted in several different ways then we're done discussing this. You can keep going on about how they needed a damage nerf without taking a closer look at what exactly this did. Good luck!

[Bobbiom]

If they have tools to "get some kills", what happens? The outnumbering side complains. "I can't help being on the outnumbering faction, don't you dare punish me!"

Phalanx ll on order side was created 2 months ago to try and regulate the inbalance of population in the orvr and we got flamed on/trashed talked both from order and destruction and even some gm's and now you FORCE people to xrealm.

You have said that you don't care about 1v1, 6v6 and 24v24.
So please clarify what exactly do you care about with this game?

If you create a system that NEEDS organized warbands to handle it then don't add in a system that punish you for having an organized guild warband in orvr, warbands that make things happend by following through with the objectives and pushing for keep assaults on a weekly basis.
Whatever happends during that time in the orvr is absolutly NOTHING an organized guild warband can do anything about IF you stay on one side only.
So right now if an opposing side get their aao up to 100% any guild wb have to leave or face wounds debuff and get instantly wiped, a change that WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER and that is a FACT.


You Azarael have to decide if you want organized guild warbands to stay in this game or make the orvr with easier objectives for casuals where people xrealm forth and back, waiting in their keep for someone to attack.

One thing to note is that a warband guild can't survive xrealming, it will fall apart and now we are at the mercy of the xerg if we can be in a orvr lake or not.


This AAO wounds debuff is something no one can take serious, no one would subscribe to a game that had this kind of orvr system.
Escpecially in an orvr that is designed around having organized wb but they are constantly regulated by random xrealmers that ping pong the aao in the orvr lake.

[Marsares]

True, I'd never argue for such a change before this patch. But with the current HP on the squigs a WL pouncing on one can kill it in 1, maybe 2 abilities along with an AA. Meanwhile, if I'm not mistaken lions got a slight buff to survivability this patch?

Again, that's fair given that they are melee pets. Try taking a WL into a medium-sized fight and see how quickly your pet dies. There is a reason why WLs have absolutely zero place in WB-sized fights, whilst SHs are much more forgiving as they can stand on the edges.

You're arguing that they needed a change - nerf to pet damage and range. Fine, they got that. Is a nerf to pet survivability/uptime warranted in this case? The patch moves the pet closer to the enemy and makes it easier to kill, that is a double nerf, a fact that is easy to overlook. The overall effectiveness of the career might dip severely after this, without adressing some of the issues they have.

If you can't see that this patch supplied a nerf to SEVERAL aspects of a Squig Herder and the overall effectiveness of the career has been impacted in several different ways then we're done discussing this. You can keep going on about how they needed a damage nerf without taking a closer look at what exactly this did. Good luck!

I understand, but my argument is that they needed all that.

Besides that:

War Lion -
Armor: 100%
Resistances: 100%
Hit Points: 80%

Spiked Squig -
Base Range: 65ft
Armor: 100%
Resistances: 100%
Hit Points: 85%

Seems to me like you're still better off survivability wise, without the need to be in melee range.

SH was in a much much better place than SW and WL. You also forget that WL got a damage nerf now as well with this patch, whilst Coordinated Strike (one of it's biggest hitting abilities) was - in the words of Azareal - collateral damage, not to mention that they got a nerf on "range" as well with the recent changes to Pounce, which is its gap closer.

You can't have range, crazy mobility and good damage. Something gotta give.

[Telen]

Does this mean for periods wounds from gear, spec or talis can have a third wiped off. If so that would prioritise Toughness and Armour.

[gebajger]

The only problem i see with the wounds debuff is the collective nature.
Aoe cannons have a radius check, the same way this debuff should too.
I dont blame ppl for not entering the lake with minus 1-2k (or more) health, totally understandable.

Same thing happened with the zone system....SOME people were doing empty keeps and everyone got the 1 zone system.
Killstealing lead to solo rp nerf.

I dont want any unfair advantage , I just want to go out not being penalized for people i have no control over.

[Luuca]

If the development team can base the Soul Essence and RF regen of a Book or Chalice upon the "local" population centered off the WP or DoK, why can't AAO also be centered off of the individual?

For instance, a 6-man is in the lake and they come across a group of 24 order. Our AAO would go up and their Wounds/AoE cap would be adjusted down based upon a .. what? 200 ft circumference from my character? In this way the ZONE would not blanket AAO every player from the underdog side, it would ONLY AAO when force meets force and at the appropriate levels. In this way, any small group facing a larger force would benefit.

At a Keep, both sides have a majority of the players at the keep and so it would be fairly even AAO, but open field, at the BOs, a 6-man with "localized AAO" facing a 12 man or even a 24 man (if a premade 6-man with skills) may have a fighting chance.

Edit: this "localized AAO" would be contingent upon 2+ players in a party - no SOLO AAO.

[Azarael]

Well, whatever.

I tried this as a less damaging option rather than going straight onto changing AoE, because I thought modifying the AoE system would produce the bigger backlash.

Not only that, the idea of Wounds debuffing was proposed by another community member (one of my more fierce critics) back in the age when DR affected incoming/outgoing damage.

If removing it is the way forward, then fine, but expect me to go down the line of using the AoE system to spread people out more in a local area, then changing RvR mechanics further afterwards.

@Luuca: That will be indicated as favouring roaming 6 mans against PUG warbands and will go down like a lead balloon.

[NectaneboII]

Phalanx ll on order side was created 2 months ago to try and regulate the inbalance of population in the orvr and we got flamed on/trashed talked both from order and destruction and even some gm's and now you FORCE people to xrealm.

You were never interested on any regulation , whatosever .You could organize on Order ( like Fusion has ) , but in truth you are Destro Biased to the core. ( which is good , realmpride is respected , slimmy tactics tho are not , and of course i am refering to a portion of your members , logging in and off during heavy T4 skirmishes. )

If you create a system that NEEDS organized warbands to handle it then don't add in a system that punish you for having an organized guild warband in orvr, warbands that make things happend by following through with the objectives and pushing for keep assaults on a weekly basis.

That is not the point , besides , calm down you do not have a monopoly on organization.
This patch aims to punish the zerg and the exploitation of sheer numbers ( sometimes generated randomly , sometimes as an organized effort.). You been frustrated about it shows that you were accustomed to such situations.

Whatever happends during that time in the orvr is absolutly NOTHING an organized guild warband can do anything about IF you stay on one side only.

You have been doing that.

So right now if an opposing side get their aao up to 100% any guild wb have to leave or face wounds debuff and get instantly wiped, a change that WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER and that is a FACT.

You got it wrong .
The wb can stay , but it will face a realm with EQUAL forces / chances , also , the amount of certainty you display in that Order will have AAO is staggering. Again this shows nothing else other than habitual arrogance.

.....if you want organized guild warbands to (quoting) " stay in this game " or make the orvr with easier objectives for casuals where people xrealm forth and back, waiting in their keep for someone to attack.

Exit is just around the corner.
When forces are equal you retreat to the keep for a defence , EU time mostly . ( i have observed situations like these and the attacks lean more towards Order .)

One thing to note is that a warband guild can't survive xrealming, it will fall apart and now we are at the mercy of the xerg if we can be in a orvr lake or not.

How exactly can a solid guild suffer from xrealmers , unless it already harbours them , elludes me .

[Glorian]

I don't get the hate on wound debuff in conjunction with AAO.

100% AAO means you have double the players.

For example 100 destros.
On Order 50 players.

So in a Perfect Chess World destro would be debuffed on 50% on wounds.
So all 100 destros and 50 orders have the same total wounds in the realm.

But being in a lot more players, organize and coordinate players is harder you will get an bonus to 80% of your wounds.

Still your damage output is that of a 100 players. So If you have more players you still have a bonus. If you keep them coordinated.

Keep: True, being wound reduced like hell with 400 AAO and then getting two-shotted by AoE guns is not fun. Needs tweaking, or a minimum wound threshold.