Liniments

[CeeJay89]

You get finished liniments (BoE) from PQ bags in gunbad, lesser seeds drop from gunbad mobs (BoE making 10 liniments each), and butchering from anywhere drops crafting ingredients. If that's not enough to please the casuals who want things babyrage right now, then tough ****.

Permanent seeds, unlike on live, are not the primary way to get liniments. By the time someone gets a drop, the market will already be established by the various other ways to acquire them and it's unlikely an influx of that particular liniment will do anything aside from push the prices DOWN, not UP. If people want stuff, they can go work for it. Tell me you've never heard someone on the team say that before to our loving playerbase.

Are you confirming that any 40+ mob on the map now has a chance to drop liniment mats in butchering? - or is that still locaalized to Gunbad? If I'm reading this part right, by "drops ingredients", you don't mean liniment ones, but instead just the fillers (Multiplier, Stabilizer, Extender).

I ask because I farmed lizards for chitins (which is a very common farm in KV), for 45-60 minutes yesterday and didn't get a single mat. I was under a previous impression that the ONLY place you can butcher and get any liniment mat drops would be in Gunbad (in the instance itself).

Can you confirm which is true?

IF all liniment seeds only drop from Gunbad, then I'm very skeptical this will work out as you envision - because people aren't going to just run Gunbad forever... it's "new" now, but it will fade somewhat fast like everything else... and liniments at a 30-minute window will go really, really fast. Look at how many armor pots the server goes through in a single day, and those are an hour each. So I'm a huge skeptic for the reasons given.

I see a constant theme from you and Torq about "easy mode" (casauls, drip-fed, etc) - and I'm ignoring that because I'm not looking for easymode. What does concern me is that whether the Lead calls this an RVR game or not (He snidely said calling it an RVR game doesn't make it one), this game IS based around RVR and the bulk of the population wants to do RVR. It's my opinion that getting the population to do PVE (Such as Gunbad or Beastlord Bosses) for gear is one thing... but to constantly having to do it to keep up with crafting items is a whole different ballgame. It's CRAFTING, but unfortuntely necessary because you can't have all the good players running around with 5% bonus crit on you that you don't have, etc etc.

This gets slightly off-topic, but forcing lots of PVE action won't help this crowd bring in new faces to continue to grow the player-base. If anything, I think it turns them off, just as it's causing my guild to quit playing as it is.

And I say "all this" from the perspective of being a skilled player in a very skilled guild...

They drop from any 40+ mob. As stated earlier, I've obtained about 80 mats (10 of each - ish) in about 8 hours of farming wyverns.

With that noted, as I also said, the random nature with the moderate drop rate makes them a little less than time efficient to farm over regular potions.

Edit: if you're referring to seeds, then I believe that in this case, Gunbad is the only option.

[Nekkma]

Permanent seeds, unlike on live, are not the primary way to get liniments. By the time someone gets a drop, the market will already be established by the various other ways to acquire them and it's unlikely an influx of that particular liniment will do anything aside from push the prices DOWN, not UP. If people want stuff, they can go work for it. Tell me you've never heard someone on the team say that before to our loving playerbase.

Could you explain what role you see for liniments in the current implementation?

Given information in this thread, and others, I estimate that you gain about 70 liniments for 1 wing of Gunbad. So basically, 12ish random liniments an hour per person, assuming that you can clear a wing in 1 hour. As the linimnets are random you might not get the ones you need but given alts, for the sake of this discussion, we assume that the linimnets you recieve are all useful. This would mean that you get 6 hours of liniments per 1 hour of farming. Comparing this with armor pots, I farmed 25 green 200 fragments in 1 hour yesterday, i.e. 50 hours of pots per 1 hour farming.

If the intention is that the main source of linimnets is doing gunbad, I believe the droprates should be greatly increased (provided that the information in this thread about drops are fairly accurate). Given that you need a group for Gunbad I think it is reasonable that the return for time invested should be at least similar to that of farming armor fragments.

If my estimations are fairly correct, I would have to do Gunbad 3-4 times a week (and that is under the assumption that all linimmnets I get are usefull). Is this really how it is intented? If so, then I guess linimnets are not intented as something you use all the time but save for special occasions (like how i do for the 800 armor pots atm).

[dansari]

Permanent seeds, unlike on live, are not the primary way to get liniments. By the time someone gets a drop, the market will already be established by the various other ways to acquire them and it's unlikely an influx of that particular liniment will do anything aside from push the prices DOWN, not UP. If people want stuff, they can go work for it. Tell me you've never heard someone on the team say that before to our loving playerbase.

Could you also confirm if eternal seeds are in or not? Maybe I'm alone, but confused on if that's the case.

[bloodi]

What i dont get is why are the Eternal seeds BoP.

That means i have to run Gunbad in the char i have cult/apo on, only, everything else is a waste?

Why bind them at all, why dont make people run Gunbad so they can get one to sell on the AH, its not like we are going to far a few and then pass them around the realm like cheap drugs.

So why the bind on pickup?

[Fallenkezef]

Permanent seeds, unlike on live, are not the primary way to get liniments. By the time someone gets a drop, the market will already be established by the various other ways to acquire them and it's unlikely an influx of that particular liniment will do anything aside from push the prices DOWN, not UP. If people want stuff, they can go work for it. Tell me you've never heard someone on the team say that before to our loving playerbase.

Could you explain what role you see for liniments in the current implementation?

Given information in this thread, and others, I estimate that you gain about 70 liniments for 1 wing of Gunbad. So basically, 12ish random liniments an hour per person, assuming that you can clear a wing in 1 hour. As the linimnets are random you might not get the ones you need but given alts, for the sake of this discussion, we assume that the linimnets you recieve are all useful. This would mean that you get 6 hours of liniments per 1 hour of farming. Comparing this with armor pots, I farmed 25 green 200 fragments in 1 hour yesterday, i.e. 50 hours of pots per 1 hour farming.

If the intention is that the main source of linimnets is doing gunbad, I believe the droprates should be greatly increased (provided that the information in this thread about drops are fairly accurate). Given that you need a group for Gunbad I think it is reasonable that the return for time invested should be at least similar to that of farming armor fragments.

If my estimations are fairly correct, I would have to do Gunbad 3-4 times a week (and that is under the assumption that all linimmnets I get are usefull). Is this really how it is intented? If so, then I guess linimnets are not intented as something you use all the time but save for special occasions (like how i do for the 800 armor pots atm).

I think the devs are trying to expand "end game" content instead of the endless RvR and nothing else. When Gunbad went live so mnay whined that there was no reason to do it. Now it has Redeye, weapon drops, jewelry and limiments. Soon we'll have Ch22 warband scale PQ's for onslaught, and hopefully other shinies.

This also expands the range to the playerbase, not all do RvR and can be put off over time from investing time in the game. RvR is the main focus yes, but there is nothing wrong with expanding the PvE content and providing good reasons to do it.

Sure, we'll have lazy people who want everything the week after they reach rank40 but I like the way the devs are epanding things.

[Samejima]

This gets slightly off-topic, but forcing lots of PVE action won't help this crowd bring in new faces to continue to grow the player-base. If anything, I think it turns them off, just as it's causing my guild to quit playing as it is.

How is "lots of PVE action" being forced, let alone to the degree that whole guilds are quitting because of it?

Apart from armor mats, you can make all the important potions without PvEing and get top level talisman fragments from sharding RVR gear. Beastlord is optional and fairly easy one-time thing anyway. Keep Lord fights are no longer required for zone locks with the new draw mechanic. None of the gear in Gunbad is an upgrade to Conquerer. And liniments aren't so much better than potions that they're required to be competitive--the ones who really benefit from them are the vanishingly small number of folks into competitive 6v6, who can justify spending the extra time/gold to acquire them.

I understand people's initial disappointment, seeing a potion upgrade (hey, we had those in Live!!!) and getting excited thinking it would be the new default. It's not, at least not yet/until enough of the purple seeds have been acquired that the production can meet demand and the prices are reduced. For the time being, liniments are a modest reward to those willing and interested in doing the PVE content that the devs worked hard to implement, and they'll cost enough to use that most people won't need them except maybe on special occasions (difficult keep fights, premade scenarios).

Generally speaking, I think the devs take a conservative approach to increasing power levels. This frustrates those of us who prioritize character advancement, but it's healthier for the game. Tempering future expectations with this in mind will go a long way towards reducing disappointment.

[Tesq]

@wargrimmir
do you mind tell if some liniment main ingredient from butchering have more/less chance to drop than other (not which one)?

just to know if is intended or not that some drop less as to bug report it after more grind test.

[wargrimnir]

@wargrimmir
do you mind tell if some liniment main ingredient from butchering have more/less chance to drop than other (not which one)?

just to know if is intended or not that some drop less as to bug report it after more grind test.

They're all on the same list, random is being random.

[Tesq]

@wargrimmir
do you mind tell if some liniment main ingredient from butchering have more/less chance to drop than other (not which one)?

just to know if is intended or not that some drop less as to bug report it after more grind test.

They're all on the same list, random is being random.

k but 2 in particular seems drop always less just to let you know i will test it more

[scatterthewinds]

If people want stuff, they can go work for it.

Can this logic (which I agree with) be applied to subjugator gear?

It already is, go do your RvR and score high on contribution chart.

And what do you get contribution for exactly? Because it certainly isnt for killing other people or getting high K:D (which are the most important parts of RVR).