T2

[Tesq]

I am not optimist as you, i see a great hole in that system.
Btw you are not accurate in tell me how this pulse system should work. If you meant there should be 1 pulse after enter/exit from combat on the flag or both receive 1 pulse every x sec/min def the flag this is still something that can be exploited, basically ppl required just 1 flag x side and can stay afk at flag and log sometimes. Then there is not always populate zones, there are times were ppl is not in game, the system must work 24h / 24h with out hole or not be implement at all.

[Ototo]

I am not optimist as you, i see a great hole in that system.

(...)

I think also about the theorycrafting i have been seeing here. I liked ur first post, Tesq, and some of the ammends proposed by Ficklefetus and Aquilon.

I would sum my opinion about this in these quotes:

Spoiler:

WAR is based on the concept of "progression". And this is the root of all evil.
Zealously sticking to it makes major flaws unsolvable.

But, in an attempt to create "continuous environment" in WAR following steps could be taken :

1). All skills from level 1. Except mastery, probably. (Why? a). To suffer not from "skill loss" under debolster. b). More tactics and variety in all tiers. c). "But, but how about newcomers? " Have balls. Nothing. Care about noobs leads to degradation. Remeber Mass Effet 2-3, anyone? d). Characters are not f. conscripts.)
(...)

Sets a ground whr all people can play in same plane from a purely usefullness point, as opposed as current "you are not a tank cause u dont have level 10, so you cant guard".

But this time Tesq had actually REALLY interesting to say, probably cause there are no class balance implying chosens . Im gonna sum u the important part taking out of the multiple examples that made the post so long:

1*Rotate not the full tier, but a de-boolster, so the tiers stay basically untouched, but rank 40s can only enter 1 zone, and locking that zone contributes Victory Points for the purpose of locking the access to city raids.

2*Implement a Victory Points system that counts all the RoR world instead of just t4.

3*Reward in a weekly basis the progress done all along the RoR world to a realm.

I think its an interesting idea, but got struggled off in the amount of examples.

Sorry for quoting myself instead of u, Tesq, but had it summed previously

I would change the city raid factor for maybe other reward. It can range from increased experience tick to unlocking special realm abilities, or special monsters, now that it is possible (A chance for an awesome loot killing a boss looks interesting).

back onto OP's topic.... I suppose the challenge is: how do you discourage easymode PvE merry-go-round zone capping and the zerg mentality, encourage underdogs to defend/fight, and try to provide a landscape to the player for combat options ranging from solo -to- small skirmishes -to- larger scale rvr?

based off Telen's original thoughts, my humble idea is this:

- 2 of the 3 zones are 'active battlegrounds' - while the third remains dormant
- 1 of the 2 active battlegrounds is fully vulnerable; BOs and keeps for the taking
- the remaining active battleground has invulnerable keeps, and only BOs are available for the taking
- locking the primary active battleground causes:
1) the other active BG's keeps to become vulnerable
2) the dormant zone's BOs to become vulnerable yet its keeps do not
- should the dominating realm continue to lock the next (second) active BG:
1) the final BG's keeps become vulnerable
2) the previously locked BG's BOs become vulnerable
- should the dominating realm lock the third and final zone WHILE retaining control of at least 2 of the 4 BOs in the other active BG
1) the winning realm receives a great XP / INF / renown bonus and a loot roll based off contributions of taking BOs and keeps
2) the losing realm receives a loot roll based off contributions

incentive for taking and holding BOs might be that BOs award a resource that scales up defenses on controlled and vulnerable BO defense, whether stronger champions or simply spawning more of them. ~combats zerg as there is potential of losing a tier lock to even a small active group coordinating attacks on unprotected BOs in the BO only vulnerable zone.

AAO is great, but it doesn't provide much incentive to players if they feel their efforts are as effective and rewarding as throwing their body in front of a steamroller. To combat zerginess - predetermined numbers of total dominant population counts (in that tier, of course) may set off a stepping system of providing the underdog realm with a warcamp spawned champion (champions?) that will begin attacking BOs in the BO only vulnerable zone. Capturing BOs award a scaling XP and INF reward to underdog realm based on tier population ratio.

sorry for the length

Sets a really nice reward's system that looks realistic, doable and understandeable. At a time it allows the strategic part of the game to be there for players that like to lead massive forces. It has the best part when u notice that the underdog actually has a really good chance to do things that are actually usefull for thier realm, contributing to defense or counter-attack. Maybe champs arent the best way to implement such thing, but the idea is what i take of it: If u are the underdog, u dont only get AAO, but some thing that can contribute for your realm to take renown out of it.

WALL OF TEXT ON SPOILER, u have been warned

Also have to say that Bozzax tendency to dicrepancy is making the little factors arrise, making this thread actually interesting to follow. He is pointing many things that need to be looked at.

[Bozzax]

I am not optimist as you, i see a great hole in that system.
Btw you are not accurate in tell me how this pulse system should work. If you meant there should be 1 pulse after enter/exit from combat on the flag or both receive 1 pulse every x sec/min def the flag this is still something that can be exploited, basically ppl required just 1 flag x side and can stay afk at flag and log sometimes. Then there is not always populate zones, there are times were ppl is not in game, the system must work 24h / 24h with out hole or not be implement at all.

I'm optimist but honestly how can you exploit this?
A) cap flag get 500 renown wait for 180 sec get 500 renown (total 1000). locked 15 min
vs
B) cap flag wait for 180 seconds and receive pulses* of 50 renown every 9s (total 1000), locked 15 min

* 50 feet to defenders but also attackers as long as the attacker healed, got hit or hit someone else during that 9s

EDIT: both methods are affected equally by AAO
EDIT2: Preferably a zerging side also gets reduced renown from reverse AAO

[Tesq]

I'm optimist but honestly how can you exploit this?
A) cap flag get 500 renown wait for 180 sec get 500 renown (total 1000). locked 15 min
vs
B) cap flag wait for 180 seconds and receive pulses* of 50 renown every 9s (total 1000), locked 15 min

wait what's the difference so? I mean i can fell that the pulses would make better the reward for ppl lock in fight that at some point loose the flag. But at the end of that 180 sec they recive always 1k renow.
Indeed if even attackers get renow is just better when you can attack.

Pulses btw would be a good move to counter doulbe or triple tap. So that when you take a flag you nned to wait there and cannot tap multiple flag. I see this system good for this reason atm.

@Ototo about what ficklefetus wrote as i told i think that that system encourage only the zerg, as the main post who is refer is the first telen post where it refer to population problem. But during the thread aza told that would be better a system that actually force ppl to spread over maps instead 1 that force them into 1 zone due to server capacity.

My initial solution was only to fix the population problem when more ppl would move to t3 and then t4, but as for purely make work t2-t3 as stand alone you need to give to the server a system that it can be handle.
Atm server do not have population problem in tiers, even more ppl will join with t2 working.
So it need something that spread ppl.

[Bozzax]

Yep no big difference but some smaller ones

* No more joining in 23:59 and get 500 renown which discourages lock chasing
* No double taps, as you point out
* Attackers trying to retake are rewarded for all failed attempts (encourages fighting)
* Outnumbered defenders are rewarded for making a last stand instead of running (encourages fighting)
* AAO is used to increase renown for an outnumbered side
* AAO is used to reduce renown thus starving the blob to death

EDIT:
Debolster and T2>T3>T4>Fort>City is an excellent idea for making lower tiers populated. All pairings can be open for cap all the time but only one tier so something like this would be possible

Chaos/emp X-T3-X-X
Elf/Dark T2-X-X-X
Dwarf/Green X-X-X-Fort

[Tesq]

* No more joining in 23:59 and get 500 renown which discourages lock chasing
* No double taps, as you point out
* Attackers trying to retake are rewarded for all failed attempts (encourages fighting)
* Outnumbered defenders are rewarded for making a last stand instead of running (encourages fighting)
* AAO is used to increase renown for an outnumbered side
* AAO is used to reduce renown thus starving the blob to death

put this way i really like it ( each tier flag should be change this way it's really a good change)

-exept the "* AAO is used to reduce renown thus starving the blob to death" (totaly i think it require a different approach)

EDIT:
Debolster and T2>T3>T4>Fort>City is an excellent idea for making lower tiers populated. All pairings can be open for cap all the time but only one tier so something like this would be possible

Chaos/emp X-T3-X-X
Elf/Dark T2-X-X-X
Dwarf/Green X-X-X-Fort

nah hum i dont like this still prefer my version

[Bozzax]

nah hum i dont like this still prefere my version

Seems fair

[Ototo]

EDIT:
Debolster and T2>T3>T4>Fort>City is an excellent idea for making lower tiers populated. All pairings can be open for cap all the time but only one tier so something like this would be possible

Chaos/emp X-T3-X-X
Elf/Dark T2-X-X-X
Dwarf/Green X-X-X-Fort

I like this. Take out Fort and City of the full thing and we can actually enjoy it a lot. Should be awesome if all players, regarding level, can simply go to the battle zone currently populated.

I would say: open 1 dwarf t2, 1 elf t3 and 1 empire t4 zone for fight. The rest give no Renown, cause its only a raid and not a battle whats happening there. U can still camp waiting for unlock, but seems most unlikely. Really boring work.

[Vigfuss]

I agree with Tesq's comments on the previous page.

In order to lock a zone, attacking realm must hold 4 BOs and the Keep at the same time. This would help split up the zerg and provide small scale skirmishes around the BOs and routes between them.

This way you're better off having several small independent groups working to lock a zone, instead of one big blob in front of the keep.

In theory at least this sounds like good gameplay to me.

[gandresch]

A good thing on War was that you Could choose where you want to hunt. For me it was elves for example in t2. Closing areas would be really sad in my eyes. Since i dont like to get forced to hunt in an area every tier.
that would be not a good move in ror.