Patch Notes 26/07/2024

[Akalukz]

Most likely you are going to have to implement some signle target burst to break the healers or start a rez chain, along with a WH/WE to stake. no more spinny spin win. (meant for WL/Mara).

This is where a sacrificial AoE 50% Heal Debuff would come into play. Say on a DPS dok/wp Zealot/Rp. Make them run a build that is single target in damage with an AoE Heal Debuff. That way there is a sacrifice for an extremely strong tool, at the cost of burst heal/dps. Most pug wb's won't have access to this.

[Rotgut]

Most likely you are going to have to implement some signle target burst to break the healers or start a rez chain, along with a WH/WE to stake. no more spinny spin win. (meant for WL/Mara).

This is where a sacrificial AoE 50% Heal Debuff would come into play. Say on a DPS dok/wp Zealot/Rp. Make them run a build that is single target in damage with an AoE Heal Debuff. That way there is a sacrifice for an extremely strong tool, at the cost of burst heal/dps. Most pug wb's won't have access to this.

A Single Target party just like i do in City, yeah sure i can try that.

And yeah i've heard a lot of experienced players talking about the 50% Heal Debuff. The DPS RP i ran yesterday only has 30%, give me a stronger one and lets see what it does.

[Akalukz]

Most likely you are going to have to implement some signle target burst to break the healers or start a rez chain, along with a WH/WE to stake. no more spinny spin win. (meant for WL/Mara).

This is where a sacrificial AoE 50% Heal Debuff would come into play. Say on a DPS dok/wp Zealot/Rp. Make them run a build that is single target in damage with an AoE Heal Debuff. That way there is a sacrifice for an extremely strong tool, at the cost of burst heal/dps. Most pug wb's won't have access to this.

A Single Target party just like i do in City, yeah sure i can try that.

And yeah i've heard a lot of experienced players talking about the 50% Heal Debuff. The DPS RP i ran yesterday only has 30%, give me a stronger one and lets see what it does.

I am by far not a super player or even huge wb leader, but i have been around as long as most, and remember being the victim of well-organized groups utilizing higher level or more coordinated builds that bust pugs. Generally there is 1-3 players in a pug wb, that if you can drop, the rest will cave.

[akisnaakkeli]

Most likely you are going to have to implement some signle target burst to break the healers or start a rez chain, along with a WH/WE to stake. no more spinny spin win. (meant for WL/Mara).

This is where a sacrificial AoE 50% Heal Debuff would come into play. Say on a DPS dok/wp Zealot/Rp. Make them run a build that is single target in damage with an AoE Heal Debuff. That way there is a sacrifice for an extremely strong tool, at the cost of burst heal/dps. Most pug wb's won't have access to this.

These are very needed, ofc they are needed these things originally were designed to exist together in Harmony and it Worked so if not full removal of morale dmg cap it needs to be 50% nerfed with the 50% aoe HD and give it to DPS WP as Well as a tactic. Evens it out. And this is the point of these melee dd heal classes, Its not a Coincidence that Dps specs of Healers are the only ones to have 50% aoe Hd's + Almost Dps dmg + Great Burst Healing thru dmg + Very nice sustain dmg + great CC like the HD.

If we get Sigmar Radiance/Transfer Essence back,Fok/Judgement 15ap returns 15rf/se. Also they had Purge/Shatter which becomes more important with 9aoe cap. Also things like Magus/Engi Magnet pulling people from keep walls is insane not to bring back now. It is for both sides + there shouldnt be no safety anywhere in rvr zone and get people used to dying again, then slowly start bringin' back some of the super strong things like Runefang/Crippling Strikes and Pouncing on keep walls/In the Air etc
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[trh382]

This change is half correct

I like the reduced TTK and the longer fights - I think Uchoo and Zumos are correct about the upsides of this change in even or close numbers fight

The issue is that all of the arguments about why it requires more precision also apply to why zerging is even more effective now:

tanks can soak damage better: 16 tanks soaking > 8 soaking

TTK is lower > harder for 24 to break 48 now

16 healers ressing > 8 healers ressing

LOW TTK and high aoe caps wasnt a great solution to zerging, as the arguments around TTK and precision demonstrate. But it was a solution. Now, while balanced number fights are more interesting, the incentive to stack multiple warbands on top of each other is substantially increased.

This change is only half effective and needs to be updated with an anti zerging mechanic

Uncapping morales is one solution

Another would be to uncap morales for the side with AAO in something like the following manner:

20% AAO - 16 morale targets
40% AAO - 24 morale targets
60% AAO - uncapped

I think another solution would be to change incentives around blobbing. Make an LOTD style buff/debuff that nerfs rewards/renown when lots of people are near you.

Whatever the approach, I think its very clear that this change makes zerging more effective and thus will make it even more prevalent

[Uchoo]

I would like more info to really analyze that situation, but I do agree with you. The problem with no morale DR is there's no real gameplay and no counterplay. My idea is something more like DPS cooldowns as I enjoy the tool-trading gameplay of most other games like WoW/SWTOR, etc. Some people will probably dislike the idea, though.

[Aethilmar]

Folks are spending waaay too much time thinking about how to zerg bust via combat mechanic buffs. This is a "war game" and the cold hard facts of war are a larger army will almost always win against a smaller army all other things being equal. They also tend to win the war.

However, history also shows a smaller army can beat bigger armies by
1) marching fast and
2) hitting the larger armies before they can assemble their full strength

But the current direction of the game has been towards forcing everyone into blobs then trying to figure out how to solve the problems that creates.

So what if instead of focusing on ways for smaller groups to beat bigger ones via a bunch of deus ex machina buffs the devs instead focused on making the campaign have sufficient mechanics that if you want to win the zone you have to move?

There have been whole essays written on the forums about ways to do this so I won't regurgitate them here. Just consider that the zergs are a symptom of a theme-park campaign, not the problem in and of themselves.

[Uchoo]

Yep, also big agree. RvR rework with stuff like deus ex machina effects. Very common in a lot of PvP games such as Baron in League; Boss in Heroes of the Storm.

Both that and some combat changes and we could have ourselves super fun open fights.

[Rotgut]

Yeah, new AoE Cap was super fun to play with in City for me. If oRvR was reworked to encourage more WB v WB fights i would have no issue with 9 targets cap. And if there were ways where we could exploit the enemy like your 2nd point mentioned then yeah, would also be a fun tool to work with.

But i think its easier for Devs to change a few numbers on Spells then to rework the whole campaign, and they are testing this new cap, so thats the feedback i'm giving.

[Zxul]

Another would be to uncap morales for the side with AAO in something like the following manner:

20% AAO - 16 morale targets
40% AAO - 24 morale targets
60% AAO - uncapped

2 wbs meet in the zone, equal numbers, equal skills. Except that one side has more people somewhere far away in the zone. Despite equal everything this side wb dies without being able to fight back, since obviously they are responsible for people being somewhere in the zone.

I think another solution would be to change incentives around blobbing. Make an LOTD style buff/debuff that nerfs rewards/renown when lots of people are near you.

2 wbs fight, 1 wb starts to win, and then more of the same side add. No more rewards for you, since the winning wb is obviously responsible for more people joining.