[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[peterthepan3]

I am open minded. I don't mind OrVr.
It's when people say things like:
"Sorry Mr. Warcamp guardian, that is the WAR and by the sounds of it you lack the true end-game experience and joy of wiping 100+ pugs with one min-maxed 2-2-2 grouped wb. Compared to that what happens on scens/pve is somewhat not important. "

...that bothers me.

And spare me the lecture mate. I respect Fct from King's Own, but the rest of you trying to justify bomb warbands as requiring coordination/lots of skill etc. is just exaggerating. You know very well that it isn't that hard to beat anything that moves if you're in a WB with 8 BWs all using the morales at the same time.

I don't mind you guys in your warbands and stuff, honestly. But let's not try to fool anyone.

[kristof5]

I am open minded. I don't mind OrVr.
It's when people say things like:
"Sorry Mr. Warcamp guardian, that is the WAR and by the sounds of it you lack the true end-game experience and joy of wiping 100+ pugs with one min-maxed 2-2-2 grouped wb. Compared to that what happens on scens/pve is somewhat not important. "

...that bothers me.

And spare me the lecture mate. I respect Fct from King's Own, but the rest of you trying to justify bomb warbands as requiring coordination/lots of skill etc. is just exaggerating. You know very well that it isn't that hard to beat anything that moves if you're in a WB with 8 BWs all using the morales at the same time.

I don't mind you guys in your warbands and stuff, honestly. But let's not try to fool anyone.

Another statement you made is claiming 200v200 is not the real pvp or should not be seen as pvp, it doesnt mean cause it's not what YOU prefer that its obsolete, it's still pvp.

you also mentioned bombing requires no skill or coördination, like really again oblivious statements piling up.

Bombing in no way shape or form requires an equal amount of skill as 6v6 engagements, does it require MORE coördination ofcourse it does you are trying to have 24 people function as a whole unit how is that not coördination.

Bombing is the most effective way to get rid of an far higher amount of players (pugs) then ST will ever be, organized warbands counter it by using challenge and rotating tank morale's , again requires coördination, setting up the group for it to not die when building morales , using it on time not using it perfectly gets you killed and wb wipes again coöridnation.

the nail in the coffin is generalization you respect Fct yet you diminish everyone else, King's own tag doesnt mean you like bombing, it does not mean we all hate 6 mans.

Also it was not meant as a lecture nor meant as shitposting, it's what i have percieved from the posts you made towards anything not 6 man related!

[Azarael]

The discussion regarding bombing will move to another thread if it wishes to continue.

[Dinner]

I had a couple of ideas, not sure how hard to implement they would be though.

1)Add some inherent Armor Penetration to two-handed hammers. That way, you don't need as much of the Weapon Skill attribute and you could do more healing via Sigmar's Radiance.

2)Some form of knockback resistance. I would suggest replacing the Leading the Prayer tactic with one that grants knockback immunity, though that may not be possible. Something to think about at least.

[Dinner]

Sorry for the double post, but I have one more idea. Maybe think about making Sigmar's Radiance undefendable while you have Grace of Sigmar slotted. That would make a somewhat lackluster tactic worth slotting and solve one of the biggest problems melee healers face. You could do the same for DoKs' Transfer Essence + Empowered Transfer.

[Azarael]

I've stopped posting in this thread because of the realization that looking at Grace in isolation isn't going to work. We need to get into T4 and see how Salvation/Grace, Grace/Salvation, Wrath/Grace and Grace/Wrath are going to work out before we can do any more here.

I'm especially interested in seeing greater Grace viability be linked into a reduction in the power of the backliners, to bring WP and DoK to what they're meant to be.

[TenTonHammer]

I'm especially interested in seeing greater Grace viability be linked into a reduction in the power of the backliners, to bring WP and DoK to what they're meant to be.

make chalices and books debuff armor to be the equvilent of clothies like all other backline healers and then finally people will play WP/DoK like the melee healers they were ment to be It will be good to see people fumble around with the class cause they can only play it like cleanse/gheal bot spammers

[ThePollie]

I'm especially interested in seeing greater Grace viability be linked into a reduction in the power of the backliners, to bring WP and DoK to what they're meant to be.

make chalices and books debuff armor to be the equvilent of clothies like all other backline healers and then finally people will play WP/DoK like the melee healers they were ment to be It will be good to see people fumble around with the class cause they can only play it like cleanse/gheal bot spammers

Except all that accomplishes is making back-liners squishier, it doesn't fix the fact melee healers are relentlessly trained into the ground, are so easily countered, or simply are out-performed by said back-liners.

[Sigimund]

Perhaps a solution can be found where backliners can remain a viable and legitimate playstyle AND melee healers can be a viable and respected playstyle.

Edit: My point is, increase the number of viable specs/playstyles rather than replace one with another or cripple the only one there is.

[Azarael]

Yes. I say this only because WP and DoK backline specs are already arguably overpowered. Buffing Grace or Wrath will empower them further, and so they'll need adjusting.