[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Sigimund]

I'd say that the undefendable element would be best attributed to Divine Assault and Rend Soul. S'R lays down sustained AoE healing but Divine Assault is used for burst, and it's a real blow when it gets defended against.

I agree that at the moment it is definitely a bigger blow when DA gets blocked. Would it be overpowered if it had this effect on both S'R and DA? The benchmark is the Salvation WP chain casting ToTD and block/parry is a problem for all melee healing.

Edit: Part of my concern is that DA is interruptible. Guaranteed first hit is not so useful if they interrupt you with a taunt in the next GCD anyway.

[Azarael]

I agree that at the moment it is definitely a bigger blow when DA gets blocked. Would it be overpowered if it had this effect on both S'R and DA? The benchmark is the Salvation WP chain casting ToTD and block/parry is a problem for all melee healing.

Edit: Part of my concern is that DA is interruptible. Guaranteed first hit is not so useful if they interrupt you with a taunt in the next GCD anyway.

Hmm. If no reasonable objection exists to that, I wouldn't mind if S'R, DA and their mirrors were made undefendable by that tactic, but that would, for me, rely on S'R being buffed by most of the power of the tactic, or its base part being made to scale off Strength. Otherwise, Grace of Sigmar would be a godlike tactic.

Energy of Vaul/Fury of da green: Aoe damage that heals your defensive target, its completely worthless on both shaman and archmage, would not be so bad for a melee healer, with cast range and the ability to do damage to multiple targets it may save you or your defensive target for when you are just not in range of melee.

If it were to cost RF, that might be something for the future, perhaps in the Wrath / Torture tree.

Arcing power: Whenever one of your attacks hhits an enemy, your defensive target gets healed for a 25% of that damage, once again worthless on the AM but may be a good thing on wp/dok, may inceintivize using pure damage skills and going for squishies for extra damage and thus healing.

Something similar exists in the Wrath tree, though it's not really reliable (Guilty Soul).

Challenge: I know it sounds ridiculous but hear me out, its impossible to match the healing of a pure healer, the damage of a pure dps or the cc and protection of a pure tank but he can at least have some of each, melee dok/wp dont have something to reduce opponents damage, challenge may help and well, it still has all the downsides of being a melee wp/dok and casting something that asks people to hit you in order to remove it.

Tactic modifying Smite / Essence Lash from offensive configuration weapons, or?

[bloodi]

If it were to cost RF, that might be something for the future, perhaps in the Wrath / Torture tree.

Yeah, hammer of sigmar as 13 points in wrath is a punch in the guts. May fit there.

Something similar exists in the Wrath tree, though it's not really reliable (Guilty Soul).

Needs to crit, which is something that wps/doks dont do much and i dont even remember if the healing portion the is crit + the dot or just the dot. Either way is a waste.

Arcing power would heal you for a portion of every attack, even using your "ranged" attack or your snare would sustain you a bit, its quite the, dont know if enough but its a start.

Tactic modifying Smite / Essence Lash from offensive configuration weapons, or?

Well, every tank gets challenge at 20, you get smite/lash ealier but if its tactic based, just making it availabe after 20 solves the issue.

Also it needs to be really up the tree, we cannot afford healbots with challenge, thats what nightmares are made of.

Since you want to get rid of grace of sigmar, i guess thats the best spot for it, the only issue is that going up to cleansing power/efficient patching and then for this new tactic for the challenge may become the best spec for healbots, even if that meant losing Khaines refreshment/Martyrs blessing.

Also, you should really consider making the aoe heal be 2.5 secs cast like every other healer and work the healbots from there. It was 1 sec less to compensate for you being in melee range and pushback but its ridiculous that its still like this.

[Sigimund]

Yeah, hammer of sigmar as 13 points in wrath is a punch in the guts. May fit there.

The animation looks great and it feels very satisfying to use. It is a pity it is such a basic strike.

Needs to crit, which is something that wps/doks dont do much and i dont even remember if the healing portion the crit + the dot or just the dot. Either way is a waste.

Heals off the dot. With some lucky crits on Smite you could get a lot of ticks on your defensive target. The attack had to be a Wrath ability so it did not make a big impact on lifetap healing.

Arcing power would heal you for a portion of every attack, even using your "ranged" attack or your snare would sustain you a bit, its quite the, dont know if enough but its a start.

Could be good. It also buffs AM lifetap nukes. I am not sure I have ever seen a lifetap AM apart from a guildy experimenting. Probably too weak or not enough AOE healing.

Also, you should really consider making the aoe heal be 2.5 secs cast like every other healer and work the healbots from there. It was 1 sec less to compensate for you being in melee range and pushback but its ridiculous that its still like this.

I agree with the principle, although my own idea was to nerf the CD rather than the cast time so it was still useful to melee. However, I can also see that messing with WP AOE healing is messing with a fundamental part of the game's balance. A nerf to AOE healing could be an indirect buff to bomb groups, for example.

[Luth]

I'd like to add something i noticed (sorry if already mentioned):

While the wounds buff "Sigmars Grace" looks good on the paper, it is close to useless in praxis.

Every good chosen or WE removes it instantly from you (blessing). So if you think "nice, my wounds is 5700" consider yourself double wounds debuffed when you run into a chosen/WE.
Rebuffing it mid fight is also no option any grace WP normally can afford (and even if he does, it will be removed few seconds later again).

This buff is actually really bad for a 14 points ability (not that it would be the only 14 points ability that is lame...).
It will also almost everytime removed first, even when other blessings are applied, as most other blessings are cast later in the fight (IB, knight, WL, WP group hot/shield; the only exception: RP rune buff, if cast before the wounds buff. But those are core and don't req. 14 mastery points...).

[bloodi]

While i agree that is quite underwhelming i think the same issues i mentioned with the hypotetical challenge tactic apply.

Its up there it is at least a choice between Martyrs blessing and the wounds buff, if it was any lower it would just be a no brainer for every salvation Wp. And for them having to reapply them is a much minor issue.

[Luth]

While i agree that is quite underwhelming i think the same issues i mentioned with the hypotetical challenge tactic apply.

Its up there it is at least a choice between Martyrs blessing and the wounds buff, if it was any lower it would just be a no brainer for every salvation Wp. And for them having to reapply them is a much minor issue.

I don't get it; which choice? This wasn't about any build. My post was about a single 14 mastery points ability.
My point is: It is a bad ability for a mastery path as it is and that it is so high up in the path makes it just worse.

I would absolutely suggest anyone to take any of the various wounds lininments in T4 instead of this ability, as you can't count on it. If you count on it, you will have your wounds debuffed in no time after the fight started (as already stated above) to your base value again.

And as i also wrote, no WP has usually the time to waste a global cooldown to reapply this buff in the middle of a fight, when it will be removed again by the mentioned two classes after their 5 second cooldown of "Sever blessing" ran out.

If he wants to keep this buff active on all group members over the whole duration of the fight, he would have to literally spam it against said classes.

I don't want the ability to be moved from it's place in the mastery path; it just should not be easily removed by some classes core abilities on the first hit because a WP has to invest heavily into a mastery path for it.
Imo the ability should be way shorter (to prevent a single WP buffing a whole warband), but it's type should be "buff" instead of "blessing".

I hope it is now more clear.

[bwdaWAR]

Is it possible for the melee healer tree's points to increase the Fury gained from melee attacks? Like, +1 Fury/point in the tree. They give 20/30 per hit already, so a fully specced priest would get +15, that's not such a terribly big increase for the cost and it could compensate for the lack of tome. Or maybe one of the less used tactics could do this.
If this is not happening already, that is. Haven't played WP that much yet...

[ThePollie]

I agree with Luth. While 700 extra health for every party member looks good on paper, in practice I find the buff is almost universally removed the moment the melee begins. Our healing is already subpar without halting it constantly to reapply a buff that will simply be knocked off immediately after we bring it back up.

As for bwdaWAR's suggestion, I don't think it's necessary. I have not had many problems with RF management, as Radiance gives 40 per strike and only Divine Assault really spends it. Unless I'm trying to give out Healing Hand to everyone at once, my RF rarely dips below 160, and two Radiances is all it takes to get another use of Divine Assault.

[sweetest]

while i think it's awesome you guys are all in support of buffing my favorite and most played class, i can't help but feel a little worried that something bad could come of this.

I feel like with some of the proprosed changes in here you could easily make Grace WPs overpowered and FoTM.

one thing i think you guys should realize is is that a grace WP is not going to be a main healer, ever. they are a support healer.

the spot in the group for a grace wp is going to be a DPS slot. Az said earlier this thread is about buffing their support and not their dps. I disagree with this, the role that we're meant to fill is a beefy melee dps that can support the group with buffs and back up-healing, like a 2h tank supports the group with buffs and cc's and snares and such. don't forget the things that we already bring that other dps dont, like cleanse. healing auras, and being nigh unkillable 1v1.

I don't think grace WPs need MAJOR changes to be viable. I think they need very small changes implemented slowly and carefully. we can start with Sigmar's Shield.

I would like our damage to be good , not as good as a glass cannon WL or slayer, but as it stands right now our dmg is not where it needs to be to be a viable melee slot compared to one of the other m dps.

One way I could think to help our damage out maybe is to make Sigmar's Fist use the same damage model as Sigmar's Vision, Sigmars fist is our main attack that is used the most to make sure our target is debuffed, we are buffed and our friends are buffed, so why is it our weakest strike in the grace tree?