[Blackguard] Blade of Ruin disscussion

[TenTonHammer]

Realistically speaking even if BoR was a 40 ft aoe outgoing heal debuff it wounlt matter since healers are not near the fronlines where bg would be

and if you can make it to the backlines you can just tag every healer with soul killer

you cant make it inc bcause a tank with an inc hd that does as much dmg as 2h bg would be too strong imho

[Tesq]

Dosent really matter how muchis strong, BG cannot spam aoe withot finish hate at some point and it will always remain outside of wb play since chosen+ Bo can do anything that BG can do and also better appart a 5 sec CD and st crit chance reduction. They both have active and passive stuff + also buffing and debuffing stuff + they do all of this aoe.
While BG is relegate to ST for everyone of his usefull stuff.

[TenTonHammer]

What a time to be alive

Chosen and BO can do everything bg can do when back on live BG outshined BO as the second tank in a group option

[Tesq]

It never done in WB.

Not when chosen have a better spamable super punt and BO can easily stats steal anything spam 2/3 skill on his rotation aoe. And also spam aoe snare which is uncleansable by wp. BO also does more burst than BG and can aoe from the start of the battle.

SC side is different, but in fact i label the weakness of BG in the aoe component and not in st cc /utility.

[TenTonHammer]

So heres the thing, between elite training and guard parry is very easy to proc for BG as such whatever utility that BoR provides shouldnt be MASSIVE.

So what if the target took increased % damage while under its effect from all other sources but you?

[Tesq]

can alredy be do by magus, and it would be another ST utility, BG need some aoe stuff really.

if you see how much st utility have chosen/kobs and theya re buff tanks which should have the less st utility as trade off, BG have zero groupwise buff /aoe deubuff utility.

IB with a 1 sec KD less have so much better stuff. elite training regen 10 ap every 5 sec (in proportion) vs 4 every 5 of aura but he just lack the debuff component so at least it have something that match chosen.

[Gobtar]

You know this is increadibly lazy, but could we just replace BoR with Wave of Scorn?

It's not doing anything in the tank tree and a AoE Snare would really help the BGs group utility.

[TenTonHammer]

too good of a buff to already strong SnB bg's

[Gobtar]

too good of a buff to already strong SnB bg's

Make it require a two-hander then? The problem with Wave of Scorn is that you have to give up so much to have an AoE snare, something destro desperately needs.

This would make the 2nd spot a difficult choice in Tier 3 and but specifically 4 (BOs will have Morale gainer and spammable AoE snare, BG offers heal-debuff and lockdown)

Another idea concerning 2h incentives that stemmed from a conversation between Az and Jaycub. What if Halberds/ Great Spears themselves gave BGs a bonus (similar to the Grace WP detaunt addition).

I firmly believe that the game should reward Sword Masters and BG for playing with their iconic weapon sets.

Thinking back this post only served to play into the "one true spec" that BGs have rather than making alternate specs available.

[Gobtar]

I have done of thinking about my time on live and RoR as a Black Guard, what makes them powerful, why they have the reputation they have and why the adversity to a KD, and why it is so hard to give up the shield.

Sword and Board Strengths: The sword and board black guard is increadibly powerful, has access to alot of goodies, and still has alot of survivability. This is what the ultimate SnB spec looks like in Tier 4.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... :;;0:0:0:0:

It's a No-Brainer, you get all your toys, an amazing wounds debuff, tons of crit, still survivable, heal debuff. 5 second KD. In T3 most BG will go Pure Anguish because of how much utility it brings. In T3 The Malice BG is a melee train assister, but loses much of his killing power without access to Anti-detaunt and heal debuff tactics.

Two Handed-Knock Down No Go: The reason why there is so much resistance about giving the BG a two-handed KD is simple. Their two hander spec is gives too much DPS to give the BG a further form of CC. The arguements which say that BG SnB is too good to let them have a 2h KD is irrelevant here. But the former point has merit.

Why is the T4 2hander Black guard so powerful? It's actually simple, it's not 1 tactic but 3-4 tactics together: Hastened Doom, Filled with Fury, Unstoppable Fury, and Soul Killer. The peak of BG DPS is when a BG can spec all 4 of these, (sometimes switching one of them out for Rugged), combined with Choking Fury a SnB or 2h Chosen is a force to be feared.

Knowing this the Black Guard can have some subtle changes to their masteries which can grant a support spec for a 2hander Black Guard that allows him to sacrifice pure damage output for utility and support. We also can use this as an opportunity to make the Loathing Tree more enticing as opens up many different spec styles.

Here is my suggestion:

Elite Training: Malice 6pts
Force of Fury: Anguish 10pts
Blade of Ruin: Loathing 10 points.

As for Blade of Ruin: I would suggest the following: Have the opponent do less damage for the duration of the Dot AND if you have a two hander equipped you Knock down the target for 3 seconds. The Seething power of the strike is more effective the more force you put behind it.

Alternate Specs: What this does do is leads to Loathing being an alternate tree: adding more to group utlity while not subverting the power of the Black Guards ultimate spec.

Opportunity Cost:IF the black guard wishes to go full bore and get his beloved 4 tactics he is unable to get the Knock Down. Force of Fury is a lack luster ability and might be re-adjusted later but the Anguish tree is so good that it can make this concession for now.

This will open up options for Black Guard to go 2 hander yet makes him choose what he wants to bring to the party, instead of the one-TRUE spec that competetive T4 BGs will have.