[Rejected] Flames of Fate, Ensnare (break mechanics)

[Gobtar]

The fact of the matter is though that making any changes to ensare will have minimal effect on WL who is a class bulit around chasing classes espically rdps

however FoF is one of destros big anti kite tools, of the few they have, so any changes affect destro more than order

Good point, maybe we should de-mirror it?

Funny idea, Flames of Fate a self buff- makes all of his abilities undefendable (or just undisruptable?) for 5s. This would allow a marauder to use his pull without fear of it getting defended, this buffs the tools he already has, the pull has plenty of counter play already compared to the root.

Keep in mind this is just the foundation of an idea, obviously an undefendable marauder is too powerful for an M1, but flesh it out and hammer it down.

[georgehabadasher]

This thread probably won't be closed, but it will be heavily moderated from now on, at least on my part.

Azarael talked about a specific topic: how these abilities are of appropriate strength for M1 and why it is absolutely necessary that they should not break on damage at all. If people can't make an argument for this (or are unable to debunk anyone who makes such an argument) they should refrain from posting.

We are NOT interested in "yeah, imho those skills are fine, i vote yes" or any other similar posts.

I think the consensus is that they're overpowered for a morale 1. A ranged champions challenge that doesn't root the caster AND does damage. Yes, there are options for counter play, but if the only counters to a morale 1 are a morale 2/RD then it maybe, just might be overpowered.

However, I think making it breakable on damage would be too big a nerf (and I say this as someone whose main is a Shadow Warrior). My guess is the root would last 0-3 seconds depending on the coordination of the group using it. If they're good it'll last until the melee train can travel to the target and then break immediately. If they're not coordinated (or there are pugs) then it'll break almost immediately, depending on how the 'breakability' is implemented.

I think it's pretty hard to argue that a single target breakable root is worth taking over Confusing Movements. A 5 second duration and unbreakable is a nice middle ground. It gives 2-3 seconds for the melees to actually catch up to the target and another 2-3 seconds to beat on them. That's hard to live through for an RDPs, but a lot more feasible than it is currently.

[Theseus]

Even as a WL, I have to admit that Ensnare is to strong. I think no damage or an only 5 sec duration would be a good way.

[navis]

This question from a perspective of a range player, kiting becomes much harder vs the heavy melee groups and it's been a long OP combination that those classes are able to extend the intended range of that type with ability like this.
Although the timer between Morales is long enough to justify the 'no break on damage' requirement, IMO, the extended range does not have a valid reason to stay.
Since those class already have primary ability to deal with range there is no need in hell for them to have 2. With Pounce/TE to get a target into range there is no excuse I can see for them to have a 65ft moral.
I know I didn't say anything that hasn't already been discussed.

[Theseus]

This question from a perspective of a range player, kiting becomes much harder vs the heavy melee groups and it's been a long OP combination that those classes are able to extend the intended range of that type with ability like this.
Although the timer between Morales is long enough to justify the 'no break on damage' requirement, IMO, the extended range does not have a valid reason to stay.
Since those class already have primary ability to deal with range there is no need in hell for them to have 2. With Pounce/TE to get a target into range there is no excuse I can see for them to have a 65ft moral.
I know I didn't say anything that hasn't already been discussed.

I would concur if pounce would have a 90% slow attatched to it while the WL is jumping, as of now, you only, if you are alone, can stop the target wit M1 and then pounce to get the target, or you can permapounce after the running target. (that pounce would need a 3-5 sec cooldown if it gets a slow, is without saying I would say.)

[Akalukz]

This question from a perspective of a range player, kiting becomes much harder vs the heavy melee groups and it's been a long OP combination that those classes are able to extend the intended range of that type with ability like this.
Although the timer between Morales is long enough to justify the 'no break on damage' requirement, IMO, the extended range does not have a valid reason to stay.
Since those class already have primary ability to deal with range there is no need in hell for them to have 2. With Pounce/TE to get a target into range there is no excuse I can see for them to have a 65ft moral.
I know I didn't say anything that hasn't already been discussed.

If we are suggesting a signle primary ability to deal with range, then TE/Fetch should be checked against primary stats of the caster, I believe currently it checks vs willpower intelligence for disrupt? I could be wrong, but seems to me this is why it fails so often when trying to TE a healer. Make it no disruptable, and I think you could be on to something.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

delete pls

[Penril]

Do this change because I have a feeling.

Why were those not moderated?

I was deciding whether to spoiler their posts and issue a warning or just plain out deleting them (easier for me to do). I opted for the former, so people can see what kind of posts we don't want to see here:

- I think X should be changed to Y. (without giving any explanation).
- I agree / +1. (we are not voting; either you have an argument and explain, or you do not and simply refrain from posting here).

I suggest everyone reads the balance forum rules again before continuing this discussion.

[peterthepan3]

Pretty much agree with Wingz. There is counterplay to it. Perhaps reduce the CD to 5 seconds or make it an M2 - whatever; but to say that it can't be countered by intelligent player/group synergies would be wrong. Marauder's TE is incredibly unreliable as it is based on intelligence, and so to nerf the M1 too much would have a more drastic effect on destro as a faction vs ranged comps than it would order due to lack of pounce.

[Tesq]

dosen't really matter, if you look at CC it's way too strong for mara/wl have those morales, also it dosen't really count have morales 2 or stay out of range

-no one CANT justify 1 skill in game by say you NEED TO NOT use your ALL YOU MORALES bar unless for defend against that ONE skill ---> that's the definition of broken or overpowered sy.

- since every one of you are ingoring the fact that you can just charge and use it to totally nullify the distance still remaining in the guard range and have so much time over 10 sec to nuke anything
OR anyway there AREN'T only rdps in the game .....used it agaist a melee currently it dam better than CC for many reasons.

-And again you cannot pretend that when there is 1 of these classes every melee is forced to NOT USE his cc remove or be blocked there for 10 sec and even be ranged root. You want ppl be punished too hard for something like this, you want ppl get punished for too many things actually.