DOK -healing-

[s0und]

In battle for praag sc, i was currently up against 3 parties of order (18 players), not regenerating soul essence at all... It's like playing an AM/shammy but no able to heal unless you drain someone for AP.

Fueled actions is not working. So no way to gain soul essence other than to offer, which you have to do ever 4 or 5 healing abilities.
Efficient patching isn't wprking either.

It's gonna be a tough one lads.

[Sigimund]

What aura did you have on?

[Penril]

What aura did you have on?

I was gonna ask the same thing. Seems to me he was running Celerity.

[sotora]

and my post was about front line heal spam which of course in wp/dok case mean aoe/g heals ....

melee g heals for 2x 500 heals is not normal if it's done take 1 sec with out ALL the risk involved for that with out even the need of crit, also not be influenced by heal debuff that's just wrong as ppl defend it. ( i need to crit to heal 1k as caster and with the risk of being : interrupted/silenced/rkd/now even KB due to how kb was changed from live/set back/kd )

and yes it's supplementary because 1 it's a g heal effect, the other one it's st heal 2 different type of effect for 2 different purpose. If the main factor would be be able to g heal spam then the melee hitter it's doing WAY better than caster and this is dam wrong
because a caster have more counter if it's forced to stay front line for rec.

Melle heals have to be powerdul if they are to be vialble alternative to cast heals.

Because if you don't have something in melee distance to hit (no enemy alive at melee range that cannot run from you at the moment, you're snared,etc) then you can not heal. So either we don't have viable melee healing in game or melee heals per use/GCD are strong and whole idea is about isolating (punting, kd, kiting, snaring, etc) melee healer.

[Tesq]

and my post was about front line heal spam which of course in wp/dok case mean aoe/g heals ....

melee g heals for 2x 500 heals is not normal if it's done take 1 sec with out ALL the risk involved for that with out even the need of crit, also not be influenced by heal debuff that's just wrong as ppl defend it. ( i need to crit to heal 1k as caster and with the risk of being : interrupted/silenced/rkd/now even KB due to how kb was changed from live/set back/kd )

and yes it's supplementary because 1 it's a g heal effect, the other one it's st heal 2 different type of effect for 2 different purpose. If the main factor would be be able to g heal spam then the melee hitter it's doing WAY better than caster and this is dam wrong
because a caster have more counter if it's forced to stay front line for rec.

Melle heals have to be powerdul if they are to be vialble alternative to cast heals.

Because if you don't have something in melee distance to hit (no enemy alive at melee range that cannot run from you at the moment, you're snared,etc) then you can not heal. So either we don't have viable melee healing in game or melee heals per use/GCD are strong and whole idea is about isolating (punting, kd, kiting, snaring, etc) melee healer.

yea and in return you have wp doing 100k damage and 200k of healing all in 1 with melee train (fresh from today), sy but i cannot accept a explanation as x need to be OP because if not ranged classes kite will rend our heal uselss, then make melee caster and melee hitter heal oriented the same thing so i can do both actualy, i cant and i still need guard.
Idk who make the point of these hybrid classes being anyway bad due not be fully one or the other since offensive tank got bringed back into the game made mandatory these classes all togheter which math done give you a straight buff to heals leaving damages unchanged make it better than anyother set up.
And anyway i still need to get the point why these heals even if they have bigger value are not affected by heal debuff.... 1 interrupt or 1 KD is a poor counter when caster also have set back to face costantly and this is exatly why i see staple 1 dok/wp everywhere they have 1 general counter "something" that interrupt for 1 skill and nothing else appart be killed... most of their spam ability is from 1 skill that heal all the group better than a backline dok/WP costantly and he cannot even be debuffed?
With out count that these classes soak damages like tanks so they can actually push over healers even under focus and god know if anyone can stop em with immunity. For least even if you punt guard away, they simply need to aoe detaunt use the channeling which anyway give ista 1.2k of heals? just 2 hit are enough to save your ass you can even not waste the detaunt.
If you are good enough some set up are retarded op.

[Dabbart]

None of which has anything to do with DoK healing...

What happened in some SC means nothing without context. I have a screenie of my Z doing 425k damage with 9 DBs and over 100k healing. Means nothing though, cause it was BfP and I was on a cannon.

When a DoK (or WP) attempt to Heal themselves or their group, are they effective? All evidence I have seen is that they are. Personal preferences and style are just that. Personal problems.

Don't like the current? well. **** loads of people hate the way they have been played for years.

But I do agree with WP/DoKs needing a way to reduce the amount of their heals besides Morale/detaunts/kiting. I just don't think we either class is at their "end state".

[Dalgrimar]

It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)

I think i love you now.

[zak68]

so is going full dark rites no more a valid option ?

[Tesq]

None of which has anything to do with DoK healing...

What happened in some SC means nothing without context. I have a screenie of my Z doing 425k damage with 9 DBs and over 100k healing. Means nothing though, cause it was BfP and I was on a cannon.

When a DoK (or WP) attempt to Heal themselves or their group, are they effective? All evidence I have seen is that they are. Personal preferences and style are just that. Personal problems.

Don't like the current? well. **** loads of people hate the way they have been played for years.

But I do agree with WP/DoKs needing a way to reduce the amount of their heals besides Morale/detaunts/kiting. I just don't think we either class is at their "end state".

and here is where ppl mistake, that's poitn the ratio between heals and damages which in that case seems to be 1-2
then dok/wp dont have fluff aoe damage they most it st so 100k of damages being the second dps of the sc and 200k of heals being the first one healer. That's a ratio that should be carefull watch

[sotora]

yea and in return you have wp doing 100k damage and 200k of healing all in 1 with melee train (fresh from today), sy but i cannot accept a explanation as x need to be OP because if not ranged classes kite will rend our heal uselss, then make melee caster and melee hitter heal oriented the same thing so i can do both actualy, i cant and i still need guard.
Idk who make the point of these hybrid classes being anyway bad due not be fully one or the other since offensive tank got bringed back into the game made mandatory these classes all togheter which math done give you a straight buff to heals leaving damages unchanged make it better than anyother set up.
And anyway i still need to get the point why these heals even if they have bigger value are not affected by heal debuff.... 1 interrupt or 1 KD is a poor counter when caster also have set back to face costantly and this is exatly why i see staple 1 dok/wp everywhere they have 1 general counter "something" that interrupt for 1 skill and nothing else appart be killed... most of their spam ability is from 1 skill that heal all the group better than a backline dok/WP costantly and he cannot even be debuffed?
With out count that these classes soak damages like tanks so they can actually push over healers even under focus and god know if anyone can stop em with immunity. For least even if you punt guard away, they simply need to aoe detaunt use the channeling which anyway give ista 1.2k of heals? just 2 hit are enough to save your ass you can even not waste the detaunt.
If you are good enough some set up are retarded op.

That is conceptual thing and not game mechanics issue.

Because if Melee healer does not have stronger heal per gcd than cast then it is less reliable than ranged healer.

If melle healer does not do any damage (i.e. lets nerf WP/DoK damage while in Melle Heal 'stance' not by 50% like currently but by 80% or 90%) then why even bother playing melee healer in first place?

It is like Shaman or AM, skilled players of them can do both dps & healing to some extent. DPS specced can off heal and healing spec can off-dps.

Only way to stop this is to nuke that kind of hybrids from game. Just make DoK/WP ranged healer with some situational melle heals and in other stance melle dps with self healing and throw out melle healing concept out of game.

This is a conceptual thing. Question is whether devs/players you want classes that can do more than pure healing/dpsing/tanking or not in game?

Last but not least - I would watch out with scenario dps / heal numbers. Even before DoK/WP changes "old" DoKs/WPs also could do 100k+200K thing. Not like this is something completly new. I don't play that much T4 scenarios last days but those I did play - I saw much less DoKs on destro side than before changes. Much more shamans and bit more Zealots though.