Resolute Defenses redesigned

[Morf]

I agree in respect to RD being an issue but dont see a damage decrease when RD is active as the right solution, imo all CC needs to be looked at before RD is changed (or removed) so the CC - dead moments are not as common giving less reason to warrant RD being available.

As for counter play if you run buffhead you can just play def and kite the duration of RD, not saying its always possible but when you see someone with RD up you know how things are going to go down.

Dont forget that sov 8 piece bonus granted a group wide RD (inex force).

[footpatrol2]

I don't think the OP's solution goes far enough.

I suggest to Inactivate this or put it on a 30 min to 60 min cooldown. Way more leaning on inactivate.
On demand Immunity to CC at a press of a button is devastating especially for those durations.
There are abilities that mimic this but have extremely short durations such as 4 sec's. Those abilities actually have to LAND for the 4 sec's of immunities to trigger and your not immune to everything.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

What you could redesign it to (if this tactic is ballanced which i think it is) something simular to the dwarven tactic, Stoutness of Stone. This would make it much easier to calculate the vallue of it's effect.

50% reduced KD and Stagger time = 160 stat points ~ 40 renown points.

Warned, The role of those responding to a topic is to reinforce or debunk the original poster's analysis of the issue and his proposed solution. Thus, broadly the same rules apply as to topic starters. Analysis of the topic starter's post must be thorough, and any solutions posted by responders which compete with the topic starter's proposed solution must be soundly based around resolving the issue in question.

When responding, be sure to use facts and support your reasoning.
Gerv.

[Darosh]

I agree in respect to RD being an issue but dont see a damage decrease when RD is active as the right solution, imo all CC needs to be looked at before RD is changed (or removed) so the CC - dead moments are not as common giving less reason to warrant RD being available.

As for counter play if you run buffhead you can just play def and kite the duration of RD, not saying its always possible but when you see someone with RD up you know how things are going to go down.

Dont forget that sov 8 piece bonus granted a group wide RD (inex force).

"CC-dead" happens in everything 6>/pug, much less in 6 given coordination is taking place.
Abbd.: If its 6v6 I don't see an issue in "CC-dead" given the coordination it requires under these circumstances.
Abbd.: I don't see an issue with "CC-dead" in anything >6 either, given the numbers (and at times coordination) in play.

RD in its current iteration does not have to be used proactively in all instances.
Kiting and playing defensively is not an issue for people that utilize RD to faciliate exactly that: kiting.

Sov 8pc bonus is a moot point not only because its not a thing on RoR, but because it was - as Tesq pointed out - an on-use on a gearset accessible to <one> archetype granting the RD-esque effect to the entire group without means to individually time it to gurantee a return in all instances.

[Zemnexx]

There is a ridiculous amount of CC in the game already, and Warhammer doesn't have diminishing returns so RD is really the only good counter to give you a chance from getting CC chained into oblivion.

Please explain how one can be "CC chained into oblivion" once he got, for instance, a 3 second knockdown and has a 27 second "unstoppable" immunity after he's getting up again.
Hint: Immunity timers are longer with longer CC.

Honestly, it seems fine and only premades who want to lock down and take out targets without allowing for a fight would have an issue with it.

This argument is invalid, because aforementioned premades utilize it as well to prevent CC on themselves at the first encounter, which means that any group with it has a big advantage over a group without it. Once the first target is down (which is much easier when you can't be affected by CC but the enemy is), the enemy group looses damage/heal/tankiness potential and while the RD group can still apply full pressure, the group without is locked in the defensive role/into resurrection chain.

Ah that did slip my mind, but regardless there are still CC chains that can occur of different CC types that put entire groups on the back foot that a well coordinated premade can do effectively and RD makes a great counter to be able to prevent some of that momentum if used correctly by the opposing group or key players. On your example, you are saying that the entire opposing group is not using RD. Why? If it is strong it should be utilized by both sides, thus being on an even footing that comes down to how well it is used?

[roadkillrobin]

The thing is, how you spend renown points should be optional not manditory. RD is also not equal vallue among classes but have the same cost.

[Darosh]

There is a ridiculous amount of CC in the game already, and Warhammer doesn't have diminishing returns so RD is really the only good counter to give you a chance from getting CC chained into oblivion.

Please explain how one can be "CC chained into oblivion" once he got, for instance, a 3 second knockdown and has a 27 second "unstoppable" immunity after he's getting up again.
Hint: Immunity timers are longer with longer CC.

Honestly, it seems fine and only premades who want to lock down and take out targets without allowing for a fight would have an issue with it.

This argument is invalid, because aforementioned premades utilize it as well to prevent CC on themselves at the first encounter, which means that any group with it has a big advantage over a group without it. Once the first target is down (which is much easier when you can't be affected by CC but the enemy is), the enemy group looses damage/heal/tankiness potential and while the RD group can still apply full pressure, the group without is locked in the defensive role/into resurrection chain.

Ah that did slip my mind, but regardless there are still CC chains that can occur of different CC types that put entire groups on the back foot that a well coordinated premade can do effectively and RD makes a great counter to be able to prevent some of that momentum if used correctly by the opposing group or key players. On your example, you are saying that the entire opposing group is not using RD. Why? If it is strong it should be utilized by both sides, thus being on an even footing unless you play around it by baiting the ability out and waiting till it falls off before your group initiates group CC.

1.) Name the chain, I dare you.
2.) If whatever you will not be able to name requires coordination the proper counterplay should be coordination - not a dumbfire ability.
3.) [snip] - Arguably poor elaboration of the issue, see abbendum instead.

Abbd.: Note: If its not an alpha strike situation it is one that had the opposing group stumble out of a fight with RD on CD and wide open to said RD-induced burst.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

Please explain how one can be "CC chained into oblivion" once he got, for instance, a 3 second knockdown and has a 27 second "unstoppable" immunity after he's getting up again.
Hint: Immunity timers are longer with longer CC.

This argument is invalid, because aforementioned premades utilize it as well to prevent CC on themselves at the first encounter, which means that any group with it has a big advantage over a group without it. Once the first target is down (which is much easier when you can't be affected by CC but the enemy is), the enemy group looses damage/heal/tankiness potential and while the RD group can still apply full pressure, the group without is locked in the defensive role/into resurrection chain.

Ah that did slip my mind, but regardless there are still CC chains that can occur of different CC types that put entire groups on the back foot that a well coordinated premade can do effectively and RD makes a great counter to be able to prevent some of that momentum if used correctly by the opposing group or key players. On your example, you are saying that the entire opposing group is not using RD. Why? If it is strong it should be utilized by both sides, thus being on an even footing unless you play around it by baiting the ability out and waiting till it falls off before your group initiates group CC.

1.) Name the chain, I dare you.
2.) If whatever you will not be able to name requires coordination the proper counterplay should be coordination - not a dumbfire ability.
3.) Luth isn't saying that the entire opposing group isn't using RD, but that the entire opposing group gets jumped by a group popping RD with the alpha strike bursting down a member of the group leaving it at a disadvantage for the remainder of the engagement.
I.e.: Whoever pulls off a RD-induced burst first wins the engagement; you cannot break a <proper> burst if your opposition cannot be CC'd.

There is a chain you can do with Champions Challange and knockdown. But that it.

[Darosh]

There is a chain you can do with Champions Challange and knockdown. But that it.

I wanted to have him name it, for obvious reasons.

Abbd.: To clarify: There are ofc more CC rotations (that do what CC rotations do, <crowd control> the opposition), but nothing else does lock a target down as the above or [Abbd.: Roots break on damage, Punts are punts, ...].

[Zemnexx]

There is a chain you can do with Champions Challange and knockdown. But that it.

I wanted to have him name it, for obvious reasons.

Snares are a CC as well, where RD also benefits. So you can think of them, I'm sure.

Luth isn't saying that the entire opposing group isn't using RD, but that the entire opposing group gets jumped by a group popping RD with the alpha strike bursting down a member of the group leaving it at a disadvantage for the remainder of the engagement.
I.e.: Whoever pulls off a RD-induced burst first wins the engagement; you cannot break a <proper> burst if your opposition cannot be CC'd.

So one team was jumped by the other team and they preemptively used RD to take out a key player. That just sound like they got outplayed then.